Montana Draw - How does it work

Correct. This was told to my party mate on the phone and via email in 2023 when we were split. He spoke with multiple people and escalated it beyond just the folks that pick up the phone. I believed at the time they were breaking their own law by doing this and that they also had conflicting information on their website so I would love to see FWP published information that challenges what I have posted.
Interesting! They definitely need to nail a few things down on the draw for released tags and make it more transparent what they are actually doing.
 
I feel they may have fixed the splitting of groups in the released tags draw as we had 2 seperate party’s and all 4 drew with 1.5 avg. guy I spoke with said they still go off PP in released draw also. I wasn’t going to argue and am going to go hunt because I have zero faith they would correctly get me a refund and my 2 PP back.
 
Maybe they didn’t at one point, but they have been recently. See example below.
I think the key part is was separated "...based on the individual refund selection choices in their applications".

The FWP on their "how to buy your licenses: Nonresident" video @22:00 they explain that all your choices and refund options must be the same to prevent your party from being split.

 
As I’ve stated on the other thread, my buddy and I each drew released tags with 1.5 points. When I called FWP to ask about it they said that unlike years past groups don’t get split up in the released round. So it sounds like an issue that’s been addressed. Now they just need to be more transparent about their draw stats because the whole “released” round thing is a total mystery that no one can figure out. It’s one thing to apply for a tag with a 50/50 chance of drawing but if the odds show 0% but in actuality you apparently have a pretty good chance of drawing that is not right.
 
It’s one thing to apply for a tag with a 50/50 chance of drawing but if the odds show 0% but in actuality you apparently have a pretty good chance of drawing that is not right.
Or just don't apply if you don't want to draw? 🤷

I understand that you guys went in trying to "game" the system but MT has actually proven one thing and i personally like it. They proved that point banking is hard and pushing on impossible.

This is a welcome trend in the world of point creep and guys just banking points. There's plenty of guys who applied with the high hopes of actually hunting that didn't draw because of guys who tried to not draw got a tag they would've loved to have.

Montana isn't that hard play the 0pt game with decent odds every year. Or play the point game and hunt every 2nd year with really good odds or guaranteed every 3rd.

This is not a personal attack on you at all as I know others thought they found a loop hole to getting 3pts in 2yrs without going through an outfitter
 
There's plenty of guys who applied with the high hopes of actually hunting that didn't draw because of guys who tried to not draw got a tag they would've loved to have.
That’s the problem though- if the system worked as intended it would’ve worked out fine for everyone. Instead it appears that it was a random draw for released tags so a lot of people on both ends are getting screwed. It seems like it would be a very simple fix and would provide just a little bit of “tag certainty.”

I understand the points game can be variable from year to year so there’s no way to guarantee anything but even after the draw stats were released this year it showed 0% odds for .2-1.8 points which is flat out false. People tried to game the system because FWP told them based on their draw stats that it was a smart move. If people would’ve known they could potentially draw on a random basis then it would’ve deterred a lot of people, myself included.

 
I think the key part is was separated "...based on the individual refund selection choices in their applications".

The FWP on their "how to buy your licenses: Nonresident" video @22:00 they explain that all your choices and refund options must be the same to prevent your party from being split.

Thanks for finding this!

@Dos Perros check it out.
 
That’s the problem though- if the system worked as intended it would’ve worked out fine for everyone. Instead it appears that it was a random draw for released tags so a lot of people on both ends are getting screwed. It seems like it would be a very simple fix and would provide just a little bit of “tag certainty.”

I understand the points game can be variable from year to year so there’s no way to guarantee anything but even after the draw stats were released this year it showed 0% odds for .2-1.8 points which is flat out false. People tried to game the system because FWP told them based on their draw stats that it was a smart move. If people would’ve known they could potentially draw on a random basis then it would’ve deterred a lot of people, myself included.
At least we know now! I wasn’t applying on years with 1 point because I thought there was no way to draw a tag. Moving forward I can apply every year and have a shot. If for some reason I can’t go, I will just set up the app to stay out of the released portion of the draw.
 
I wasn’t applying on years with 1 point because I thought there was no way to draw a tag.
For the past several years it was impossible to not apply with 1pt if you had it. You would lose your points if you didn't apply in consecutive years.

So if you bought a point in the summer of 24 and didn't apply like you mention in 25 you lose your pref point. You have to apply every year if you are buying pref points. Only exception is when you buy your first point in the summer, obviously you don't need to apply that year but the following spring you need to apply or you lose your pref point.

But yes now we know how to not get in the released part of the draw which should help everyone get what they want, whether that's a potential released tag or a chance to bank points.
 
For the past several years it was impossible to not apply with 1pt if you had it. You would lose your points if you didn't apply in consecutive years.

So if you bought a point in the summer of 24 and didn't apply like you mention in 25 you lose your pref point. You have to apply every year if you are buying pref points. Only exception is when you buy your first point in the summer, obviously you don't need to apply that year but the following spring you need to apply or you lose your pref point.

But yes now we know how to not get in the released part of the draw which should help everyone get what they want, whether that's a potential released tag or a chance to bank points.
I am talking about buying a point when you apply. Previously I assumed it was a waste of time and would not apply the years after I drew a tag (buy point after the draw and have 2 points every other year).
 
For the past several years it was impossible to not apply with 1pt if you had it. You would lose your points if you didn't apply in consecutive years.

So if you bought a point in the summer of 24 and didn't apply like you mention in 25 you lose your pref point. You have to apply every year if you are buying pref points. Only exception is when you buy your first point in the summer, obviously you don't need to apply that year but the following spring you need to apply or you lose your pref point.

But yes now we know how to not get in the released part of the draw which should help everyone get what they want, whether that's a potential released tag or a chance to bank points.

In your scenario you would have two points going into the draw if you elected to purchase a preference point at time of application in 25 as the points you purchase at application are applied to that years draw. In essence there are only a three ways to enter the draw with one point. 1. You drew the previous year and zeroed out your points. 2) You did not purchase a point the previous year 3) You elect to not purchase a PP at time of application.
 
One issue I see every year that people complain about getting screwed is the party application. MT regulations are very clear in outlining that everyone in the party application must choose the same options or the party will be split into individual applications for the second part of the draw (released tags), which is a random draw. The applications are detailed and if one party member chooses one small option different that the other party member(s) do, the party is then split. This can include refund option, point purchases (both PP and BP), tag delivery etc. Unless your party gets on the phone together and completes the application, there is a high likely hood of one person in the party completing the application differently.

I am not saying MT does not make mistakes, but most party applicants are not getting screwed they are just filling out their applications incorrectly.
 
At least we know now! I wasn’t applying on years with 1 point because I thought there was no way to draw a tag. Moving forward I can apply every year and have a shot. If for some reason I can’t go, I will just set up the app to stay out of the released portion of the draw.
I rewatched the FWP video with the application instructions...are you sure there's a way to stay out of the released portion of the draw?
 
I rewatched the FWP video with the application instructions...are you sure there's a way to stay out of the released portion of the draw?
Great question after I thought about it more you could still possibly draw. I was thinking apply for LE elk tag and mark refund for no gen, when you have less than 2 points. I assume in the initial draw all LE tags are gone and since they group you based on refund option you would be out of the pool completely. But since the draw put emphasis on the refund option maybe it is still possible to draw a released tag from someone who didn’t get their LE permit (I might email them again about this specific pool of tags).
 
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