CPW - ‘Righting’ some Wrongs

[Hnthrdr]

I agree though. Fight for what you want in life. Whether it's more tags, longer seasons, more restriction's, etc. But don't expect the group that is losing something to be happy about it or not fight back. Also after you take something away from a certain group don't expect that group to help you out when there are issue's like wolves, bike trail's, cat hunting on the ballot, etc.

Again fight for what you want, just don't be surprised when down the road you don't have any backup.

Are you being honest? Saying residents can't get a deer tag doesn't seem very honest to me.

I am being honest, with the current set up residents cannot hunt mule deer every year in our home state in a vast majority of the the state. if you hunted some of the worst units with limited access you might be able to get a tag every year maybe… but that is assuming a lot of other Co residents sit it out and don’t get one of those tags. even most 0 point units are only 50/60% percent residents will draw with 0 points, which makes it a lock with 1 point, and if you look at those many times NR get the same or better draw odds, just feels wrong that a resident has worse odds in his home state.

But I get that you want to keep Co wide open so you can live somewhere cheaper and come play for a week and then head home, just like we want more opportunities for living here.

 

[Hnthrdr]

@svivian the memes are hilarious keep them coming

 

[Hnthrdr]

I see it more as residents of the few states who are cutting back on non-resident privileges (CO, WY) are getting annoyed when non-residents complain.

I personally think that it is cool that someone from Alabama can hunt in the state that I was born and live in. Come on out.

What becomes trite is when people ignore that their state of residency has different rules for non-resident hunters, but their expressions only seem negative to CO/WY. I cannot hunt elk in ND, NE, and KS...probably some other places. That doesn't meant that I should wage war on those states. I've handed over more money to UT trying for those WHCE raffles than I have spent on any one species in CO, I surely am not going to launch a crusade to the west anytime soon.

I get doubly annoyed when folks bring up paying for public land or supporting conservation. So? We all do that, every single one of us, even people who don't hunt. Heck, illegal immigrants who are working on fake papers and scared to file for a tax return are doing that too.

Colorado has been, still is, and likely will always be the most generous to non-resident elk hunters of all the states. People need to understand that Colorado's wildlife is not an infinite commodity, and there is a rapidly growing demand to hunt it. I am happy to see that the powers to be in Colorado have taken a small step to reward residents for that designation. I also believe that residents take significantly better care for the land and the animals than non-residents, but that's a whole different topic.

Each state has reasons to live there and reasons to not. I love hunting pronghorn, but choose not to live in WY because I like being by my family. My choice doesn't mean that residents in WY should see ill-will or are viewed poorly because they are prioritized for pronghorn tags. It just means that I have to wait my turn just like everyone else, and can enjoy my home state in the meantime. Every state discriminates against non-resident hunters, and I am amazed at how sour and spiteful people get over that.

Absolutely spot on, it’s weird that it is such a hard concept for people to grasp or maybe being on the short end of the stick as a resident we are okay with states like wyo putting their residents first in line. Who knows maybe if interest in western hunting wanes in some years the regulations will reflect those times, I think people don’t realize that it is a finite commodity. If every elk hunter killed an elk in Co in one year the species would be put on the brink of extinction in the state… I don’t know if people realize that.

 

[Gerbdog]

Absolutely spot on, it’s weird that it is such a hard concept for people to grasp or maybe being on the short end of the stick as a resident we are okay with states like wyo putting their residents first in line. Who knows maybe if interest in western hunting wanes in some years the regulations will reflect those times, I think people don’t realize that it is a finite commodity. If every elk hunter killed an elk in Co in one year the species would be put on the brink of extinction in the state… I don’t know if people realize that.

Ya know.. on that point... worth having some faith in these agencies and trust they know what theyre doing.... North American elk as a species WERE on the brink of extinction at one point just a 100 years ago and are one of the great success stories of conservation. Its a limited AND fragile commodity.

 

[Billy Goat]

 

[ReaptheHeat]

You have your cake (your own resident state) and eat it too (OTC Colorado). I don't see the issue with residents wanting higher quality hunts. It's only a matter of time before OTC goes away for both parties.

Also, most of your access to federal public land is through state taxes and local user groups that maintain and advocate for trail systems.

 

[Billy Goat]

NR's spend a lot more than just 2 tanks of gas, a meal, and some Busch lattes.....

 

[Tobe_B]

If there is all these tax dollars from non-resident tax payers pouring in to these public lands…why in the **** do we have to cut so many damn trees, on our own time, with our own saws, and using our own stock? Any idea who actually keeps those trails open? Outfitters and volunteer groups working for free. If you believe your federal tax dollars actually do F.O. for federal land management…then I’ve got some ocean front property in AZ for you. That’s off topic from the post and I’m sorry for that. But I have yet to see anyone else out there with a saw clearing trails.

As far as the actual topic goes. Colorado needs to do a lot more for herd management as far as elk goes. And honestly reallocating tags from NR to R isn’t the answer. Herd numbers are down statewide. With wolves on the horizon it’s even more dire. OTC for anyone needs to go away. And as resident I’d gladly pay more for my tags to help the CPW budget for reducing NR tags if that’s the route they go. I don’t want to see hunting opportunities limited for anyone. But we can’t all be out there every year. Even if 90% of the hunters suck and can’t kill anything.


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[sndmn11]

View attachment 493450

You left off owning that double wide that someone said they were jealous of.

 

[tdhanses]

I see it more as residents of the few states who are cutting back on non-resident privileges (CO, WY) are getting annoyed when non-residents complain.

I personally think that it is cool that someone from Alabama can hunt in the state that I was born and live in. Come on out.

What becomes trite is when people ignore that their state of residency has different rules for non-resident hunters, but their expressions only seem negative to CO/WY. I cannot hunt elk in ND, NE, and KS...probably some other places. That doesn't meant that I should wage war on those states. I've handed over more money to UT trying for those WHCE raffles than I have spent on any one species in CO, I surely am not going to launch a crusade to the west anytime soon.

I get doubly annoyed when folks bring up paying for public land or supporting conservation. So? We all do that, every single one of us, even people who don't hunt. Heck, illegal immigrants who are working on fake papers and scared to file for a tax return are doing that too.

Colorado has been, still is, and likely will always be the most generous to non-resident elk hunters of all the states. People need to understand that Colorado's wildlife is not an infinite commodity, and there is a rapidly growing demand to hunt it. I am happy to see that the powers to be in Colorado have taken a small step to reward residents for that designation. I also believe that residents take significantly better care for the land and the animals than non-residents, but that's a whole different topic.

Each state has reasons to live there and reasons to not. I love hunting pronghorn, but choose not to live in WY because I like being by my family. My choice doesn't mean that residents in WY should see ill-will or are viewed poorly because they are prioritized for pronghorn tags. It just means that I have to wait my turn just like everyone else, and can enjoy my home state in the meantime. Every state discriminates against non-resident hunters, and I am amazed at how sour and spiteful people get over that.

I have to say though that driving through CO the residents really could clean up their yards/lots, many treat their own property like a junk yard outside of the big cities.

Because of this I bought my CO property in an LOA because I don’t want a neighbor that treats their yard as a dump. You don’t really see this as much in many other states.

Guess what I’m saying is It’s hard to believe many in CO take care of public lands when they don’t even take care of their own land.

 

[sndmn11]

I have to say though that driving through CO the residents really could clean up their yards/lots, many treat their own property like a junk yard outside of the big cities.

Because of this I bought my CO property in an LOA because I don’t want a neighbor that treats their yard as a dump. You don’t really see this as much in many other states.

Guess what I’m saying is It’s hard to believe many in CO take care of public lands when they don’t even take care of their own land.

I'm eluding to advertising units/spots, and OHV usage.

"I won't draw this tag again for a decade, so what do I care if it gets hunted out."

"We only drove our tractor over here a few times, we didn't know the rules, we aren't from here."

 

[tdhanses]

I'm eluding to advertising units/spots, and OHV usage.

"I won't draw this tag again for a decade, so what do I care if it gets hunted out."

"We only drove our tractor over here a few times, we didn't know the rules, we aren't from here."

I guess I don’t see anyone telling the world where to hunt as having any effect on taking care of the land. As for driving where they are not supposed to I get that and have also seen many residents do it as well.

I do think residents are better about being tight lipped on good areas as they should be, why ruin a place you hunt every year or every other and a NR can only come maybe every 4 or 5 years. Only NR that would tell anyone about it is one that doesn’t plan to hunt there again.

Something CO needs to do is not allow for building points and still hunting the same year. Either hunt or build points, leftover and secondary draws should take points if you have any, if you have zero you go to the back of the list and get last choice.

 

[sndmn11]

I guess I don’t see anyone telling the world where to hunt as having any effect on taking care of the land.

I guess make a thread telling folks where you shot your animals then see how the traffic degrades the land, the animals, and the experience.

 

[tdhanses]

I guess make a thread telling folks where you shot your animals then see how the traffic degrades the land, the animals, and the experience.

I think influencers do more damage then the regular old NR dumb enough to say where they shot an animal, heck if we didn’t have forums just think of how much less interest there would be and less information for all as well.

 

[SoloWilderness]

I guess I don’t see anyone telling the world where to hunt as having any effect on taking care of the land. As for driving where they are not supposed to I get that and have also seen many residents do it as well.

I do think residents are better about being tight lipped on good areas as they should be, why ruin a place you hunt every year or every other and a NR can only come maybe every 4 or 5 years. Only NR that would tell anyone about it is one that doesn’t plan to hunt there again.

Something CO needs to do is not allow for building points and still hunting the same year. Either hunt or build points, leftover and secondary draws should take points if you have any, if you have zero you go to the back of the list and get last choice.

I don't really understand the logic of a 2nd choice tag taking points. There is a huge difference in quality between units that draw out at 1st choice with points and units that go to 2nd choice in the draw. This would just result in people hoarding points and more crowding in the OTC units, as most residents that regularly hunt "decent" 2nd choice draw units are saving points for higher quality 1st choice tags would be unlikely to burn points on 2nd choice tags and would then just shift to hunting OTC while they save points. This is from the perspective of a resident who hunts a 2nd-3rd choice tag regularly, meaning I shoot a lot of cows while I wait for a good bull tag every few years. No way in hell would I use my points for a 2nd choice cow tag, or even a 2nd choice bull tag. I kill decent bulls on 2nd choice tags, but they aren't worth points, as I often kill the only decent bull I see. On a 1st choice tag, I would expect the unit to be good enough to have multiple opportunities, and maybe even have the ability to pass on smaller bulls. I don't expect this same luxury on a 2nd choice tag. If I thought the unit was good enough to use points, I would take it as a 1st choice, and just use the points. A lot of people would also leave these 2nd choice tags to their 3rd choice, to protect their points. Would we then have to go 3rd choice taking points? Leftover tags taking points? Most tags that go to leftover are fairly mediocre for bulls. Plenty of decent cow tags lower down in the draws, but again, not worth points.

As far as gaining a point and then not being able to hunt the same year, when a good tag takes 10 or more years to draw, during those 10 years a resident would not be able to hunt? This makes no sense. Or are you suggesting Colorado residents have to go to Wyoming to hunt during the years we are building points for our once in a decade premium hunts in CO. I see this suggestion pop up a lot, and I honestly don't understand it. Not trying to be snarky about it, I just don't get the logic, please enlighten me as to how this would help with overcrowding, etc. I would think it would just result in lots of people drawing these tags eventually, but then being terrible hunters because they don't get any practice...

 

[sndmn11]

I think influencers do more damage then the regular old NR dumb enough to say where they shot an animal, heck if we didn’t have forums just think of how much less interest there would be and less information for all as well.

Probably, but from a different angle. I don't pay attention to "influencers" much, but the handful I see referenced seem to be attempting to educate on how people can obtain overlooked tags. I am not really aware of an influencer overtly communicating a unit/mountain/drainage. I also don't think most of the times when a NR shares information, it isn't out of ignorance or accidental. It seems to be more for attention or out of spite from the attitude of they won't be back anytime soon.

I regularly post about the elk tags in CO that are list C, OTC, months to hunt, etc. (just like I did in this thread) so maybe that makes me a bad influence as well.

 

[realunlucky]

Probably, but from a different angle. I don't pay attention to "influencers" much, but the handful I see referenced seem to be attempting to educate on how people can obtain overlooked tags. I am not really aware of an influencer overtly communicating a unit/mountain/drainage. I also don't think most of the times when a NR shares information, it isn't out of ignorance or accidental. It seems to be more for attention or out of spite from the attitude of they won't be back anytime soon.

I regularly post about the elk tags in CO that are list C, OTC, months to hunt, etc. (just like I did in this thread) so maybe that makes me a bad influence as well.

I think part of it is drawing a tag that takes 7 or 8 years and not realizing that residents draw it zero points. They see the unit one way and your prospective as a resident is much much different as you could go there yearly.

For me burning nearly a decade of points puts an added layer of stress on a hunt knowing I'm possibly never getting another chance there. That pressure can produce empathy for those who draw later and possibly making me more open to the option of sharing information.

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[tdhanses]

I don't really understand the logic of a 2nd choice tag taking points. There is a huge difference in quality between units that draw out at 1st choice with points and units that go to 2nd choice in the draw. This would just result in people hoarding points and more crowding in the OTC units, as most residents that regularly hunt "decent" 2nd choice draw units are saving points for higher quality 1st choice tags would be unlikely to burn points on 2nd choice tags and would then just shift to hunting OTC while they save points. This is from the perspective of a resident who hunts a 2nd-3rd choice tag regularly, meaning I shoot a lot of cows while I wait for a good bull tag every few years. No way in hell would I use my points for a 2nd choice cow tag, or even a 2nd choice bull tag. I kill decent bulls on 2nd choice tags, but they aren't worth points, as I often kill the only decent bull I see. On a 1st choice tag, I would expect the unit to be good enough to have multiple opportunities, and maybe even have the ability to pass on smaller bulls. I don't expect this same luxury on a 2nd choice tag. If I thought the unit was good enough to use points, I would take it as a 1st choice, and just use the points. A lot of people would also leave these 2nd choice tags to their 3rd choice, to protect their points. Would we then have to go 3rd choice taking points? Leftover tags taking points? Most tags that go to leftover are fairly mediocre for bulls. Plenty of decent cow tags lower down in the draws, but again, not worth points.

As far as gaining a point and then not being able to hunt the same year, when a good tag takes 10 or more years to draw, during those 10 years a resident would not be able to hunt? This makes no sense. Or are you suggesting Colorado residents have to go to Wyoming to hunt during the years we are building points for our once in a decade premium hunts in CO. I see this suggestion pop up a lot, and I honestly don't understand it. Not trying to be snarky about it, I just don't get the logic, please enlighten me as to how this would help with overcrowding, etc. I would think it would just result in lots of people drawing these tags eventually, but then being terrible hunters because they don't get any practice...

My main thought is if your going to hunt it’ll cost you your points, this would vastly reduce NR and R that only really want to trophy hunt and just making hunting an annual camping trip and just hang out in camps or around roads.

OTC will cost you your points as well, if you want to OTC hunt no building of points.

My point is if you want to hunt there is the opportunity to hunt annually but if you want to trophy hunt you lose your opportunity at hunting annually. It would be a personal choice.

This would stop people from building points and still hunting, it would vastly decrease pressure and yes there would be a hard decision to make if you have any points, burn them on lessor areas to hunt or keep waiting for prime time trophy areas.

I personally feel this is how it should be in all states, no building towards trophy units and still hunting annually, resident or nonresident.

 

[tdhanses]

Probably, but from a different angle. I don't pay attention to "influencers" much, but the handful I see referenced seem to be attempting to educate on how people can obtain overlooked tags. I am not really aware of an influencer overtly communicating a unit/mountain/drainage. I also don't think most of the times when a NR shares information, it isn't out of ignorance or accidental. It seems to be more for attention or out of spite from the attitude of they won't be back anytime soon.

I regularly post about the elk tags in CO that are list C, OTC, months to hunt, etc. (just like I did in this thread) so maybe that makes me a bad influence as well.

Born and Raised hunted one of the trail heads where I hunt, didn’t have to say it all they had to do was show a sign for a split second for people to know, pictures/video do more damage then words really.

If we do the work for others yes it’ll get harder to get tags, personally I don’t think we should hand hold and let people that are really serious figure it out, the others won’t try but if we directly tell them then they just put in.

 

[SoloWilderness]

My main thought is if your going to hunt it’ll cost you your points, this would vastly reduce NR and R that only really want to trophy hunt and just making hunting an annual camping trip and just hang out in camps or around roads.

OTC will cost you your points as well, if you want to OTC hunt no building of points.

My point is if you want to hunt there is the opportunity to hunt annually but if you want to trophy hunt you lose your opportunity at hunting annually. It would be a personal choice.

Well, there is that set of hunters, both resident and non, I suppose. We are meat hunters first, and antler hunters second, at least the people I hunt with. We rely on a harvest, every year, to fill the freezer. We also hunt exclusively back country, miles from the road, and rarely see others, because we outhike and outhunt them. We typically have 3-4 cow tags for every bull tag, because we are realistic about what we need to target to fill all our tags.

To me that is a lousy choice, and one that I doubt many people would get behind. Personally, I could care less if NR get to hunt CO, especially if it comes at the cost of higher opportunity hunts for residents. No one I know goes with outfitters or spends the kind of money NR spend to go on outfitted hunts, nor could we. We hunt to feed our families, and if we get a nice set of antlers every once in a while, for the wall, great. I wouldn't make the choice to give up working towards a really nice bull every 8-10+ years just so I could hunt cows or small bulls every year. Something like this would just drive people out of hunting in general. Especially the people who go out and learn to hunt by going after cows while they build up points for what could be a OIL hunt for a good bull.

I get it that NR are salty that I can draw a tag with 0-2 points that costs them 5-6 points, but honestly, we pay the exorbitant cost of living in part to be able to hunt elk every year, whether that is to trophy hunt, or meat hunt. If NR want the same opportunities to hunt as R do, then move here. When a truck full of NR comes out, every one of them with bull tags, and all expect to fill them, it's a bit unrealistic, and they are more than likely primarily trophy hunting, rather than meat hunting. Big difference between a local who is budgeting $1000 or so to fill the freezer each year, but pays into the states coffers all year long, and a NR who comes out every once in a while to trophy hunt.