6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[JBradley500]

For the 260? 6.5 creed?

Creedmoor. Sorry about that.

 

[waldo9190]

I heard a good one at my LGS today.

Two strangers talking.

“I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor but sold it because my buddy said to take that shit back and get a .270. Where we hunt elk in Oregon is thick timber and we want a bigger, slower bullet. “

Made me chuckle.

Everybody's buddy is a senior ballistician.....

I would have grabbed a box of each factory ammo and showed the guy how smart his buddy actually was.

 

[SouthPaw]

What bullet did you use?

I edited the post to make it more clear, I used the 135g Terminal Shock from DRT (dynamic research technologies). It is a lead-free alternative to copper monos. It is a HPBT jacketed cup and core design, but the core is made of highly compressed tungsten instead of a lead alloy. It is designed to penetrate a few inches and then the jacket peels off, exposing the core which begins rapidly fragmenting in tissue.

130TMK / 135 DRT / 135 Berger / 140 ELDM

 

[ElPollo]

I edited the post to make it more clear, I used the 135g Terminal Shock from DRT (dynamic research technologies). It is a lead-free alternative to copper monos. It is a HPBT jacketed cup and core design, but the core is made of highly compressed tungsten instead of a lead alloy. It is designed to penetrate a few inches and then the jacket peels off, exposing the core which begins rapidly fragmenting in tissue.

130TMK / 135 DRT / 135 Berger / 140 ELDM

View attachment 600959

I’d be interested to hear what you think the velocity limit for bullet upset is on those and would also like to see some low velocity ballistic gel tests.

 

[SouthPaw]

I’d be interested to hear what you think the velocity limit for bullet upset is on those and would also like to see some low velocity ballistic gel tests.

I don't know, this is the first time I've used these. It performed well at 2k fps with full fragmentation, so I'd be comfortable saying 1800fps shouldn't be an issue. I'm certainly more comfortable with these at slower speed impacts than monos. The manufacturer told me 1400fps.

When @eoperator is free to do more gel testing I'd be happy to send in some of these 135g and their 79g .22 cal.

 

[ElPollo]

I don't know, this is the first time I've used these. It performed well at 2k fps with full fragmentation, so I'd be comfortable saying 1800fps shouldn't be an issue. I'm certainly more comfortable with these at slower speed impacts than monos. The manufacturer told me 1400fps.

When @eoperator is free to do more gel testing I'd be happy to send in some of these 135g and their 79g .22 cal.

I’d love to see better options for non-lead bullets. But most don’t reliably expand and when they do they don’t do what that one did. I looked them up and they don’t list a BC on their website. Would be interesting to know more about it. I used monos for years but have since given up on them because of inconsistent and underwhelming performance.

 

[Formidilosus]

I’d love to see better options for non-lead bullets. But most don’t reliably expand and when they do they don’t do what that one did. I looked them up and they don’t list a BC on their website. Would be interesting to know more about it. I used monos for years but have since given up on them because of inconsistent and underwhelming performance.

I have seen a bit more of the DRT’s. Not enough to be conclusive, however if I were forced to use non lead, they would most likely be what I would choose currently.

 

[SouthPaw]

I’d love to see better options for non-lead bullets. But most don’t reliably expand and when they do they don’t do what that one did. I looked them up and they don’t list a BC on their website. Would be interesting to know more about it. I used monos for years but have since given up on them because of inconsistent and underwhelming performance.

That 135g is new for 2023 and they haven't gotten their BC tested/published. I shot them out to right near transonic. In my rifle it trued to .475 G1. I'm sure the larger hollow point hurts the BC a bit.

 

[ElPollo]

I have seen a bit more of the DRT’s. Not enough to be conclusive, however if I were forced to use non lead, they would most likely be what I would choose currently.

I recognize you may be working with a small sample size, but what are your observations thus far below 2000 fps impact velocity? I think the idea of using something relatively dense and brittle as a core to fragment on impact is an interesting idea. Sorta makes me wonder about how bismuth would work in a similar application. Pretty sure bismuth is more brittle than tungsten.

 

[ElPollo]

That 135g is new for 2023 and they haven't gotten their BC tested/published. I shot them out to right near transonic. In my rifle it trued to .475 G1. I'm sure the larger hollow point hurts the BC a bit.

That BC is not terrible as far as non-lead bullets go. Thanks for the info.

 

[wesfromky]

Just finished this thread, and between it and the .223 one, it has changed my direction for my next rifle. I was planning a 16" .308 and the 130gn ttsx, but think I am going to go with a 16" 6.5cm and 130tmk (if I can find factory ammo) or one of the eldms/x. Can't do 223 due to caliber restrictions for bear in KY.

I am not planning on shooting past 350 anytime soon. From all the educational posts here, I believe I will be well within the velocity envelope evan at 16" for either of those, right?

And F the NFA - already have a 30 cal can in jail and don't want to mess with canceling the order, taking the restocking fee hit, and then certifying a 6.5 version, so will live with the extra few db in exchange for lower recoil.

 

[ElPollo]

Just finished this thread, and between it and the .223 one, it has changed my direction for my next rifle. I was planning a 16" .308 and the 130gn ttsx, but think I am going to go with a 16" 6.5cm and 130tmk (if I can find factory ammo) or one of the eldms/x. Can't do 223 due to caliber restrictions for bear in KY.

I am not planning on shooting past 350 anytime soon. From all the educational posts here, I believe I will be well within the velocity envelope evan at 16" for either of those, right?

And F the NFA - already have a 30 cal can in jail and don't want to mess with canceling the order, taking the restocking fee hit, and then certifying a 6.5 version, so will live with the extra few db in exchange for lower recoil.

No factory ammo with the 130 TMK. Factory 140 ELDM will probably be 2450ish at the muzzle with a 16”. That will easily get you past your 350 yard limit with enough steam to upset and kill like a hammer if you hit them in the right spot. And just use your 30 cal can. Doesn’t need to be caliber specific. Stubby suppressed 6.5 cms are just fun to shoot.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

I collected a little data today that I can share.

I took a frontal shot on a buck antelope at around 180-190 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor using 143 gr. ELD-X leaving my barrel at 2,685 fps. Impact velocity would have been right around 2,500 fps.

The bullet entered just off center of the brisket on the left side, took out one side of the heart, went through the liver and diaphragm and broke the 3rd to last rib as it exited the body cavity and was found under the hide around the flank area. The antelope ran 40-50 hards before collapsing.

The entrance hole through the brisket was about the size of a 50 cent piece (larger than a quarter, but smaller than a golf ball.


One half of the heart was completely obliterated


There was significant liver damage and hole through the diaphragm. The exit through the 3rd to last rib was about the size of the expanded bullet.


Here is the bullet retrieved from the flank


Initial weight: 143 gr
Final weight: 91.9 gr
Weight Retention: 64%

The lead core does come right out out of the copper jacket where it is not bonded and has probably expanded past the interlock ring, but it was found intact as shown in the pictures.

Overall, I am extremely happy with this expansion and performance.

 

[JGRaider]

Can't ask for much better performance than that. Great pics, and great shooting!

 

[MTMeatHunter]

143 ELDX
~2450fps impact velocity
Dink black bear broadside
Two entrance holes were silver dollar sized, two exits were substantial and seen in photo below. Insides obliterated.

 

[TheCreeds]

@Formidilosus I read in this thread or another that you prefer the 130 TMK in 6.5's. If the velocity is kept above 2050 how would you compare the performance of the 130 TMK to the 130 Berger Hybrid OTM?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus I read in this thread or another that you prefer the 130 TMK in 6.5's. If the velocity is kept above 2050 how would you compare the performance of the 130 TMK to the 130 Berger Hybrid OTM?

Similar for most uses. The 130gr Berger OTM will penetrate 2-4 inches before upsetting, usually fragmenting. The 130gr TMK begins upset almost immediately in the wound channel. That is the largest difference.

 

[Bc45]

Anyone have experience with the 120 ELDM? Just curious the difference between that and 143 ELDX. I shoot the 143 now but I have more 120 available around me right now

 

[Dobermann]

Anyone have experience with the 120 ELDM? Just curious the difference between that and 143 ELDX. I shoot the 143 now but I have more 120 available around me right now

I'd be interested in differences specifically between the 120 gr ELDMs and 129 gr SSTs ... I know Form once called those 'splashy'.

 

[ezwy]

I collected a little data today that I can share.

I took a frontal shot on a buck antelope at around 180-190 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor using 143 gr. ELD-X leaving my barrel at 2,685 fps. Impact velocity would have been right around 2,500 fps.

The bullet entered just off center of the brisket on the left side, took out one side of the heart, went through the liver and diaphragm and broke the 3rd to last rib as it exited the body cavity and was found under the hide around the flank area. The antelope ran 40-50 hards before collapsing.

The entrance hole through the brisket was about the size of a 50 cent piece (larger than a quarter, but smaller than a golf ball.
View attachment 605215

One half of the heart was completely obliterated
View attachment 605216

There was significant liver damage and hole through the diaphragm. The exit through the 3rd to last rib was about the size of the expanded bullet.
View attachment 605217

Here is the bullet retrieved from the flank
View attachment 605218View attachment 605219View attachment 605220View attachment 605221View attachment 605222

Initial weight: 143 gr
Final weight: 91.9 gr
Weight Retention: 64%

The lead core does come right out out of the copper jacket where it is not bonded and has probably expanded past the interlock ring, but it was found intact as shown in the pictures.

Overall, I am extremely happy with this expansion and performance.

At least one of us can shoot.