.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Luke S]

Shoot I live in Alaska....I'll go on that trip.

 

[ElPollo]

Probably a bit light for bear

So I think a lot of people read posts like this that sound entirely rational to you if you are new to this idea, and they think you are trolling them because there are literally dozens of successful bear kills documented in this thread with a 223, and dozens of elk, and even a few moose. It can be a hard thing to get your head around the fact that such a cute little cartridge can do so much damage with the right bullet. It’s also true that marketing within the industry is telling you that it can’t. But take some time to go through the information presented here. It might change how you think about a few things. And start back at the beginning of the thread where it starts out by saying “bullets matter more than head stamps”.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

FWIW I’ve been trying to get @Ryan Avery and @robby denning to funding an AK Coastal Brown Bear filmed .223 77TMK expedition for this thread and this site.

PLEASE help them be convinced to send me and @formidilosous and a cameraman to AK kill a coastal brown bear with the .223!

I think the video would benefit from having a total newb along to offer perspective that would otherwise be missed by you old professionals. I graciously volunteer my time to join this venture.

 

[Tahr]

70 deer a year? One in the morning and one in the evening....for over a month? Or is it just one per day for two months?

It's 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 a hunt. I hunt at a minimum once a fortnight all year round. 75% with the .223. Different countries do things differently. It all goes to a soup kitchen/charity.

 

[Grover4360]

In the interest of carrying on this discussion, can you provide some additional detail on what you mean by “Underpowered”? Does this relate to the size of the wound? The distance at which you may shoot? The ability to buck wind?

Sure, for me it’s mostly about down range energy. My son and I each shot bulls last year, one at 375 yards and the other at 622. I could see the visible shock of my son’s bull through my binocs. At close quarters I believe the .223 loaded properly can be devastating, I’ve seen it make a mess of an antelope. I’m primarily hunting elk, during migrations, in some pretty nasty back country. I can’t afford to chase a wounded animal through some of that crap.
Having said that, I have shot a few in close quarters…. If I can kill them with my bow, I can certainly kill them with a .223. Close quarters has not been the norm, however. Sorry long response!

 

[PNWGATOR]

Sure, for me it’s mostly about down range energy. My son and I each shot bulls last year, one at 375 yards and the other at 622. I could see the visible shock of my son’s bull through my binocs. At close quarters I believe the .223 loaded properly can be devastating, I’ve seen it make a mess of an antelope. I’m primarily hunting elk, during migrations, in some pretty nasty back country. I can’t afford to chase a wounded animal through some of that crap.
Having said that, I have shot a few in close quarters…. If I can kill them with my bow, I can certainly kill them with a .223. Close quarters has not been the norm, however. Sorry long response!

Do your due diligence here on the ‘energy’ argument.

If you are willing to dive in with an open mind I’m certain it’ll be an enlightening journey.

 

[Grover4360]

Do your due diligence here on the ‘energy’ argument.

If you are willing to dive in with an open mind I’m certain it’ll be an enlightening journey.

I am willing to dive in, I’ve been considering a change for my Wisconsin and Minnesota deer hunts. With only a few exceptions all my deer have been killed at less than 100 yards. Now, the .223 thought process starts to shine for me. That’s why I started reading the thread. I’m open, I just made the mistake of starting with drawing my line in the sand with Elk. I have a bear hunt in Idaho at the end of May….maybe it’s worth a try!

 

[atmat]

It's 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 a hunt. I hunt at a minimum once a fortnight all year round. 75% with the .223. Different countries do things differently. It all goes to a soup kitchen/charity.View attachment 658058

New Zealand? I’m jealous.

 

[Grover4360]

I totally get the fear of being underpowered. I had the same fears but had to try this for myself. Despite all the pictures and proof I just couldn’t really wrap my head around a 223 killing big game. So I switched to the 223 for my Idaho elk hunt last year and killed my bull without issue. He died just as fast if not faster than the elk I’ve killed with big 30s. Maybe get a cow tag and ease your way into it. Once you see it first hand, you’ll become a true believer.

Actually, that is a good idea…. I will grab a late season cow tag and experiment. But first a deer or two! Curious….. how far out was the bull you shot?
Thanks

 

[Formidilosus]

Curious….. how far out was the bull you shot?
Thanks

Not trying to be rude here, however- I thought you said that you read the thread?

 

[Grover4360]

Not trying to be rude here, however- I thought you said that you read the thread?

 

[Grover4360]

When people say they don’t mean to be rude… they actually do mean to be rude. What is your point?

 

[Deadspace]

Actually, that is a good idea…. I will grab a late season cow tag and experiment. But first a deer or two! Curious….. how far out was the bull you shot?
Thanks

Awesome! Don’t forget to post up your results! My bull was at 400 yards. Then a few days later it finished off a cow at 500 yards that had a couple 6.5 rounds in her.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Y’all this thread is 302 pages. I’ve read the whole thing and I hardly remember anything that happened before page 250. I think y’all need to accept that you’re going to have to restate some of your points to new readers

 

[PNWGATOR]

Sadly its not. Plenty of folks on here have been shit on for even just using the wrong rings. God forbid they drop something besides a swfa on a tikka

Which rings are wrong?

What did they drop that worked?

The point of this entire forum, including this thread, is objective reality.

 

[Formidilosus]

When people say they don’t mean to be rude… they actually do mean to be rude. What is your point?

That if had just read the entire thread, you would know there were only a few bull elk that were specifically posted. It is obvious from your responses that you have. Not read the entire thread, because you are saying things, and asking things that were covered in detail that would be obvious.

 

[Formidilosus]

Sadly its not. Plenty of folks on here have been shit on for even just using the wrong rings. God forbid they drop something besides a swfa on a tikka

Can you quote the post where someone was “shit on” for using the wrong rings?


I’m beginning to understand that people have a hard time separating “would like objective, logical evidence” from “speaking their opinion”.

 

[Smenning]

First of all, to each his own, not saying you shouldn’t, just that I wouldn’t . I’m not a big risk taker when it comes to my elk. I manage my points very carefully, and when I draw a coveted tag, I’m not taking any chances. I need to be able to shoot significant distances, at all manner of angles, in all kinds of wind and weather, way off the beaten path. I trust my 300WSM with 180gr ELDX handloads implicitly. Just like I trust my .223 for varmits. Without perfect conditions (normal for elk) I’m opting for the heavier bullet. Could I kill an elk with my .223, probably! But I once caught a 48 inch Musky with a fly rod too….would I do it again? Hell no, I was lucky to boat dat bitch, let alone revive her afterwards. Why take that chance with a valuable tag and a beast of an animal. You do what you do, I will follow your thread….. seriously, good luck!

I assume you are loading the 178 ELD X, out of curiosity what are you getting for velocity? How far are you willing to shoot at game with this combo? In how much wind? I’m not trolling, genuinely curious. I’ve always hunted with a 300WSM and love the cartridge. 185 VLD’s , 185 Juggernaut’s and 200gr ELDx they have all worked sufficiently. This was my first year hunting with the .223 77gr TMK combo and it preformed exactly as advertised in this thread. I would have no concerns hunting elk with this combo inside of 500 yds ( 1800FPS). If your anything like me you’ll find yourself shooting tons more, becoming more proficient reading wind and have way more confidence in the field. Just my $0.02 from someone who has hunted with both.

 

[Grover4360]

That if had just read the entire thread, you would know there were only a few bull elk that were specifically posted. It is obvious from your responses that you have. Not read the entire thread, because you are saying things, and asking things that were covered in detail that would be obvious.

I was specifically talking to Sadler, not you! I wanted to know the distance of his bull , no one else’s. I can plainly see the other posts, the distances and the wound channels…. Is it necessary to be a jerk?

 

[Tmac]

Unfortunately a 223 isn’t legal for elk here, so I need to figure out something else for my daughter, I’m thinking a compact rokstok and either rebarreling my 308 to a 6creed or getting her an 8 twist 243 and keeping the 308 (most likely) but she’ll be using my 223 for spring bear, and I’ll be using it for all of my rifle hunting

Faced the same dilemma. About went with the 8 twist Tikka 243 for my grands, but ended up getting a Howa mini in 6 ARC for a good price off gunbroker. So that is another route to consider, as is low recoil ammo for the 308. Used some low recoil ammo in 7mm-08 for my nephew 15 years or so ago, worked well to 200 yards, which was as far as we used it.