Wyoming residents want first chance at leftover big game tags

[wytx]

Nobody is blaming NRs, it is the WG&F we are trying to persuade.
Buzz is also not pushing this from what I know, I have been pushing this for several years now and just now with the Task Force can get a voice heard. Just about all of my comments this year also contain language about changing the order of the draw and the resident rollover to the NR draw.
I just want our resident quota reserved for residents through the draws, then put them available for all as leftovers.

Buzz explained well why these licenses get leftover, we only get 3 choices and for most I don't think we are applying for just the best areas, it is the areas we think we can draw.

Seems to me a good compromise over 90/10. NRs would get their 20% and a chance at more.

 

[tdhanses]

Nobody is blaming NRs, it is the WG&F we are trying to persuade.
Buzz is also not pushing this from what I know, I have been pushing this for several years now and just now with the Task Force can get a voice heard. Just about all of my comments this year also contain language about changing the order of the draw and the resident rollover to the NR draw.
I just want our resident quota reserved for residents through the draws, then put them available for all as leftovers.

Buzz explained well why these licenses get leftover, we only get 3 choices and for most I don't think we are applying for just the best areas, it is the areas we think we can draw.

Seems to me a good compromise over 90/10. NRs would get their 20% and a chance at more.

Makes sense really, question is should WY just remove 80% of the tags form NR opportunity completely, I’m all for NR chances but if the state just had a Resident leftover pool where NR couldn’t buy that would open it up, it would be a big hit financially but it could be weathered.

They are separate draws, so only allow the NR to draw from the 20% pool, don’t allow for NR to buy leftovers from the 80% but if there are any in the 20% then they can have a chance after the draw.

It could be possible that some leftover tags never sell that remain in the resident pool but they’ll be available if a resident wants them.

CO has a similar situation, issue is residents don’t put in for units and don’t buy the leftovers, if these were only available to residents, there would be many tags not purchased and management of areas effected, this may not be an issue in WY.

 

[cgasner1]

The problem trying to be addressed is any leftover resident tags in the initial draw dropping to the initial NR draw. Some of those are tags that Residents would apply for in a second Resident only draw.

It also depends on the demand and unit. Point is many traditional units that Residents apply for as second and third choices are not the same units with tags available in either draw.

A unit I picked up as a second choice several times a decade ago, its now less than 50% odds for a first choice.

All this would do is give residents, even those applying smartly, a second opportunity to get tags from the 80% they are already supposed to be getting anyway. Things are always in flux in regard to tag numbers, interest in a particular unit, etc. Which is to say, even looking at past draw history and applying smartly, doesn't necessarily equal success in the draw.

Its not like I'm the one deciding this, its something Residents are presenting to the GF and task force as well as this petition is trying to address. Many Residents think its worth consideration.

Sounds to me like they need to adjust their own application or get use to not hunting. 3 choices to apply for and not drawing a tag is your own fault when they have left over tags. Choices where made


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[BuzzH]

Sounds to me like they need to adjust their own application or get use to not hunting. 3 choices to apply for and not drawing a tag is your own fault when they have left over tags. Choices where made


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Like I've said several times, its not that easy anymore and there are solutions that absolutely will make sure every Resident has a chance to draw a tag somewhere from their 80% allocation.

No, its not their own fault, there is getting to be less predictability in what areas will have tags available in second and third choices.

This has nothing to do with taking any NR opportunity away this is about Residents getting use of their 80% allocations.

I also think it will help squelch the 90-10 push for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Residents are going to make changes if they don't get tags, one way or another.

I'm not going to die on a hill over it, but its a legitimate concern being expressed from Residents. They deserve to be heard.

 

[dirtytough]

I’m surprised the non res don’t know what this really is? The problem isn’t that it’s hard to figure out the draw now. That’s just an excuse to hide what residents really want. The problem is residents are having a harder time getting 2 full price licenses and 4 reduced price.

They are only allowed to draw 1 full price license in the initial draw. Since the extra licenses are dropping to the non res initial draw there aren’t as many left for res in the left over. Same with reduced price doe/fawn.

Don’t believe the bs about residents not drawing. If they want to draw it’s easy. They just want 2 full price and 4 reduced price.

Make sure to donate to the corner crossing fund though so the residents have more area to hunt.

 

[Laramie]

I’m surprised the non res don’t know what this really is? The problem isn’t that it’s hard to figure out the draw now. That’s just an excuse to hide what residents really want. The problem is residents are having a harder time getting 2 full price licenses and 4 reduced price.

They are only allowed to draw 1 full price license in the initial draw. Since the extra licenses are dropping to the non res initial draw there aren’t as many left for res in the left over. Same with reduced price doe/fawn.

Don’t believe the bs about residents not drawing. If they want to draw it’s easy. They just want 2 full price and 4 reduced price.

Make sure to donate to the corner crossing fund though so the residents have more area to hunt.

I'm a non-resident who has a lot of friends and family in Wyoming. I get a great look at this from both sides.

Sure, there are some low access areas residents can draw but most residents want to try to draw a permit within reasonable distance from their home with public land. Take a look at the draw odds and you will see that in many areas of the state, residents are facing difficulty drawing. Now I realize these aren't the tags that are leftover but it shows you why residents would like to have a chance at the leftovers because many of them really are failing to draw a tag.

Here is an example of some of the draw odds to save people the time to look it up.




And here are a bunch more-

]
Now slash a gob of tags from these quotas and think we all know how tough it is going to be for residents to draw. The problem isn't fake.

 

[fatlander]

Sure, there are some low access areas residents can draw but most residents want to try to draw a permit within reasonable distance from their home with public land.

When nonresident bitch about not having access to tags, the answer from residents is move. Well if you want to be closer to where you want to hunt, move.

I’m really struggling to see how the hell this is that complicated. Tags are leftover for a reason, no one picked it in the first go around. 80% of a pile of shit, is still a pile of shit. If it’s not a pile of shit, and you wanted it that bad, you should’ve picked it in the first go.


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[cgasner1]

Maybe try adding 5 picks like Nevada since they can manage to figure out what’s gonna be on a left over with 3?


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[Laramie]

When nonresident bitch about not having access to tags, the answer from residents is move. Well if you want to be closer to where you want to hunt, move.

I’m really struggling to see how the hell this is that complicated. Tags are leftover for a reason, no one picked it in the first go around. 80% of a pile of shit, is still a pile of shit. If it’s not a pile of shit, and you wanted it that bad, you should’ve picked it in the first go.


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You are grouping all residents together unfairly just like some of the people on here group all non-residents unfairly. I get your ticked but seriously sit back and consider what you are upset about. This is a broken system that the WG&F backdoored to make some extra cash. Residents have finally caught on. Non-residents will still get WAY over the allowed % of tags.

 

[Btaylor]

Like I've said several times, its not that easy anymore and there are solutions that absolutely will make sure every Resident has a chance to draw a tag somewhere from their 80% allocation.

No, its not their own fault, there is getting to be less predictability in what areas will have tags available in second and third choices.

This has nothing to do with taking any NR opportunity away this is about Residents getting use of their 80% allocations.

I also think it will help squelch the 90-10 push for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Residents are going to make changes if they don't get tags, one way or another.

I'm not going to die on a hill over it, but its a legitimate concern being expressed from Residents. They deserve to be heard.

Am I following you here? There would be a first draw with 3 choices, a second draw with 3 choices both resident only from the 80% and any remaining tags would then go to a leftover pot available to R & NR?

 

[dirtytough]

I'm a non-resident who has a lot of friends and family in Wyoming. I get a great look at this from both sides.

Sure, there are some low access areas residents can draw but most residents want to try to draw a permit within reasonable distance from their home with public land. Take a look at the draw odds and you will see that in many areas of the state, residents are facing difficulty drawing. Now I realize these aren't the tags that are leftover but it shows you why residents would like to have a chance at the leftovers because many of them really are failing to draw a tag.

Now slash a gob of tags from these quotas and think we all know how tough it is going to be for residents to draw. The problem isn't fake.

Then maybe they should quit being greedy and try to draw something like unit 16 with their third choice? Or they could easily uproot their family and move closer to easier areas to draw? I’ve heard that line a lot which is one of the stupidest things I keep reading from residents.



I’ve tried to stay out of these res/non res threads. They are nothing but a SS. It seems like residents of a few western states are doing their best to lose non res support. They are playing a dumb dumb short game.

Non res just remember every little bite that keeps getting taken from the pie. Except when it comes time to support BHA, RMEF, MDF, corner crossing, delisting grizz, 23/26 getting closed in AK for caribou, late mule deer tags in Wyoming, etc. You need to forget that pie and donate donate donate. Whether that’s time, money, emailing, etc.

 

[Cahunter805]

The problem trying to be addressed is any leftover resident tags in the initial draw dropping to the initial NR draw. Some of those are tags that Residents would apply for in a second Resident only draw.

It also depends on the demand and unit. Point is many traditional units that Residents apply for as second and third choices are not the same units with tags available in either draw.

A unit I picked up as a second choice several times a decade ago, its now less than 50% odds for a first choice.

All this would do is give residents, even those applying smartly, a second opportunity to get tags from the 80% they are already supposed to be getting anyway. Things are always in flux in regard to tag numbers, interest in a particular unit, etc. Which is to say, even looking at past draw history and applying smartly, doesn't necessarily equal success in the draw.

Its not like I'm the one deciding this, its something Residents are presenting to the GF and task force as well as this petition is trying to address. Many Residents think its worth consideration.

Buzz. Just curious. What is the reason the unit you used to draw second choice is now less than 50% odds? Is it due to tag cuts or just more people applying?
I can remember the “good ol days” of driving to WY and picking up a buck tag and up to 4 doe tags if we wanted at the local Hardware Hanks. Now that unit takes 3-4 points as a NR and doe tag odds are about 25%. There were a few tag cuts but also a major spike in NR apps. I feel WY antelope is one of the most popular and most publicized hunts for many when starting to hunt out west.
I do agree residents should have preference to their tags though. I just can’t imagine a resident not being able to pickup an antelope tag with 3 choices in the initial draw. It might not be in their preferred unit but surely there are tags to be had.

 

[BuzzH]

Am I following you here? There would be a first draw with 3 choices, a second draw with 3 choices both resident only from the 80% and any remaining tags would then go to a leftover pot available to R & NR?

That seems to be what some Residents are wanting, yes.

 

[BuzzH]

Then maybe they should quit being greedy and try to draw something like unit 16 with their third choice? Or they could easily uproot their family and move closer to easier areas to draw? I’ve heard that line a lot which is one of the stupidest things I keep reading from residents.



I’ve tried to stay out of these res/non res threads. They are nothing but a SS. It seems like residents of a few western states are doing their best to lose non res support. They are playing a dumb dumb short game.

Non res just remember every little bite that keeps getting taken from the pie. Except when it comes time to support BHA, RMEF, MDF, corner crossing, delisting grizz, 23/26 getting closed in AK for caribou, late mule deer tags in Wyoming, etc. You need to forget that pie and donate donate donate. Whether that’s time, money, emailing, etc.

So, how is it greedy for residents to want a couple shots at the 80% they're supposed to get via legislation/regulation?

The way it sounds, you would prefer Residents go after 90-10 for deer, elk and pronghorn?

That would be much more greedy of them than simply asking for another shot at what is their current allocation.

Its up to you what you choose to support, and your reasons why you do or don't are fine with me. If you don't want to support grizzly delisting, think AK caribou closures are fine, or corner crossing isn't important, that's great. You are in no way required to support or oppose any of that.

I respect your opinions, you should also show the same level of respect when others choose to support things you don't.

No hard feelings from me.

 

[cgasner1]

Pretty sure they get 3 shots at that 80%


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[tdhanses]

So, how is it greedy for residents to want a couple shots at the 80% they're supposed to get via legislation/regulation?

The way it sounds, you would prefer Residents go after 90-10 for deer, elk and pronghorn?

That would be much more greedy of them than simply asking for another shot at what is their current allocation.

Its up to you what you choose to support, and your reasons why you do or don't are fine with me. If you don't want to support grizzly delisting, think AK caribou closures are fine, or corner crossing isn't important, that's great. You are in no way required to support or oppose any of that.

I respect your opinions, you should also show the same level of respect when others choose to support things you don't.

No hard feelings from me.

Residents can see which units go to the leftovers in previous years can’t they, pretty easy to select these as a first or third choice and get in on that 80% for that unit.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s residents that get first op at 80% of tags per unit not as a whole right? Meaning you aren’t all lumped in to a draw for 80% of the tags and then randomly given a unit.

It is a silly argument when you get 3 chances and one can’t draw a tag yet they obviously are not selecting units that consistently have leftover tags, right? I mean it’s pretty easy to see what units had leftovers in prior years.

The only reason residents don’t get 80% of tags in every unit is because they all want the top 25% of units then the next 50% of available units, the last 25% they don’t even care about until their choices in the top 75% of units do not pan out.

There is nothing keeping residents from getting 80% of tags in any units other then themselves in the current model.

 

[BuzzH]

Residents can see which units go to the leftovers in previous years can’t they, pretty easy to select these as a first or third choice and get in on that 80% for that unit.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s residents that get first op at 80% of tags per unit not as a whole right? Meaning you aren’t all lumped in to a draw for 80% of the tags and then randomly given a unit.

It is a silly argument when you get 3 chances and one can’t draw a tag yet they obviously are not selecting units that consistently have leftover tags, right? I mean it’s pretty easy to see what units had leftovers in prior years.

The only reason residents don’t get 80% of tags in every unit is because they all want the top 25% of units then the next 50% of available units, the last 25% they don’t even care about until their choices in the top 75% of units do not pan out.

There is nothing keeping residents from getting 80% of tags in all units other then themselves in the current model.

I would agree with that 10 years ago, maybe even 5 years ago, but not now.

Look how many non residents that look at last year's draw odds and think they have enough points to draw their first choice...only to be disappointed when units take a 2-3 point jump.

Same is happening with residents on their second and third choices.

 

[go_deep]

Not really sure how I feel about keeping tags in the resident pool through the second draw, but it is getting a lot harder to figure out where you can get a tag. I had a great little hunt area I'd just put in as my 3rd choice and happily go hunt there, not even a 100% draw on first choice 4 years later.

Need to get Antelope numbers back up to where they were 10 years ago, a lot of the problems would be solved with Antelope right there.

 

[BuzzH]

Pretty sure they get 3 shots at that 80%


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Right and some want a second draw as well with 3 more choices.

It's a reasonable request.

 

[tdhanses]

I would agree with that 10 years ago, maybe even 5 years ago, but not now.

Look how many non residents that look at last year's draw odds and think they have enough points to draw their first choice...only to be disappointed when units take a 2-3 point jump.

Same is happening with residents on their second and third choices.

But if you look at last years leftovers that’s a good start I’d think, if residents only drew say 30% and NR got 70%, seems like that would be an easy unit to get a tag in.

Pick a 2nd and 3rd choice that had leftover that went to NR, this would create a reduction in NR tags but eventually but if the resident base keeps growing eventually they’ll hit 80% and there will be no leftovers.