Worst thing to ever happen to elk hunting

[cuttiebrownbow]

Those folks making the maps were United States geological survey crews and the like, the states were likely using the map funds to put back into the lands. Not a handful of private app creators fattening their pockets because hunting is “in” right now.
Even public lands.org has gone to shit over it

Ah I see you don’t have a problem that onx maps exists. You have a problem that they make money off of it.

So if 100 percent of the proceeds went to conservation projects then you would be okay with it?

Am I the only one that looked at tax maps before onx made it convenient?


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[Newtosavage]

Ah I see you don’t have a problem that onx maps exists. You have a problem that they make money off of it.

So if 100 percent of the proceeds went to conservation projects then you would be okay with it?

Am I the only one that looked at tax maps before onx made it convenient?


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No, you aren't. Been studying tax maps, both paper and online, for a couple decades now. There's a spot on some nearby public land that I learned about from the county tax map. It didn't show up on any official map and I even showed it to the area manager and he didn't know about it. He's like "where did you get that map?" LOL

I told him I figured he didn't know about it since there was a permanent stand and deer feeder on "his" public management area. LOL

 

[CJohnson]

Op, no you aren’t.

My thing is, you shouldnt have to pay a membership fee to see who owns what land. That should be free public records.

Then there’s the fact that guys are profiting from those membership fees meanwhile our local public lands are filling up with ppl who never had a clue these places existed and would have never found them otherwise. They get there and walk around looking at their cellphones and pointing at landmarks. Without a clue how to approach the area, they end up walking open ridges or through timber pockets, blowing out the game. In one scouting trip a guy or two can pressure the game enough to change their pattern or bedding area, or worse, cause them to go nocturnal.
What’s worse is they’ll bring in and set up other “scouting tools”(cameras), meaning they’ll be back to trudge through all the same countryside again (or multiple times) to check them or move them, then post and/or share the pics with anyone who will give them a “like”. Then do the same (if by chance they were successful) either by showing off the area in background of harvest photos or just get so excited about their “new spot” that they just show off the landscape for everyone to see. Even just showing a quality animal can have guys salivating and jumping on their map apps to try to find out where that pic was taken.

Putting all that aside, to me you shouldn’t be profiting off the exploitation of America’s public lands and natural resources, nor should electronic technology be substituted for hard work, sweat, and boots on the ground. The game doesn’t get to use it, why should we?

Look at it this way, we as humans are already on a rapid course to absolutely destroy the world we live in, why speed up the process with technology?

When you start putting profits first, well, just look at what we’ve done to the earth because of $$$. We’ll do the same to our hunting opportunities, I’m certain.

I don't understand this gripe. No one has to pay a membership fee to see who owns the land, just go down to the local courthouse and annoy those grumpy old ladies.

I don't think you understand how OnX (or any other mapping software) works. They aren't making the maps. They're taking datasets that are by and large publicly available and combining that data into something that some people find useful. I'm sure this requires some knowledge about how all of this stuff works and some servers to keep it all running. That's what people are paying for. OnX isn't actually out there with a transit carving out public land.

 

[MeatBuck]

I haven't seen a free BLM map in over 30 years. I have a pile of them that all cost me about $8-10 each. But someone had to pay for those maps. Maybe you were just used to being subsidized by gov't map makers and now we pay a private enterprise for that information? I thought that was called capitalism.

I see zero difference between a guy looking down at a paper map 30 years ago, and a guy looking down at the app on his phone today. They are both using the technology available to them at the time.

Again, for decades us hunters have complained about not having a voice and worrying about the future of hunting. Well, there is strength in numbers so we should all be happy to see younger folks out there hunting if it's really the future of hunting and open lands we care about, and not just having our tiny little favorite spot all to ourselves.

I was raised in Texas and they have found a solution to all the things you complain about here. It's called paying for land or paying for a lease. Then you don't have to look at guys wandering around staring at their phones. Problem solved.

Two things, one I said previously “electronic technology”.
And comparing public to private is apples to oranges and again loops back to $$$

 

[CJohnson]

No shit captain obvious

Which part?

I don't understand this gripe. No one has to pay a membership fee to see who owns the land, just go down to the local courthouse and annoy those grumpy old ladies.

I don't think you understand how OnX (or any other mapping software) works. They aren't making the maps. They're taking datasets that are by and large publicly available and combining that data into something that some people find useful. I'm sure this requires some knowledge about how all of this stuff works and some servers to keep it all running. That's what people are paying for. OnX isn't actually out there with a transit carving out public land.

 

[Newtosavage]

Two things, one I said previously “electronic technology”.
And comparing public to private is apples to oranges and again loops back to $$$

Anyone else see the irony in ranting about electronic technology on electronic technology...?

 

[MeatBuck]

Profiting off our public lands is the same reason I don’t subscribe to YouTube channels.
Sure it’s neat to watch a guy kill game on tv or wherever but when it’s in your backyard and the next seasons are followed by full parking lots and an Overcrowded backcountry, I can’t get behind that. Especially not in a way that puts money in someone else’s pockets. Meanwhile my freezer is empty and I’m having to spend my money on processed meat. F that.

 

[Poser]

Using Colorado as an example, I would go so far as to say that nearly 50%, if not more, of the big game licenses sold, are sold to nonresidents. That's 50% more money that goes to the state strictly to manage the game that we all hunt. Not to mention the butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers who all benefit where these hated nonresidents stop for gas, stay in hotels, and dine. Many small towns in these Western states survive and depend on nonresident hunters.

If some of you have your way, good luck with your economies, conservation, and most importantly dealing with the "liberals" (in name only) who want to whittle away at your god given rights...they have already taken over most of your statehouses.

Tags sold in CO go to the state’s general fund, not conservation. The CPW budget exists independent of license sales. Now, in TN, by contrast, the state game agency’s budget exists exclusively off license sales (if no licenses were sold, they would lose their funding), but that’s the exception. All of these NR tags are funding state welfare programs as much as they are funding conservation. If NRs stop buying tags, the state will just raise taxes elsewhere for funding. So, while the NR hunters contributes to the economy, for the individual resident hunter, there is little direct benefit to the actual quality of the hunting experience from NRs buying tags marked up 1000%. As much as fat dudes taking up 4 parking spaces at the grocery store with their “rigs” and setting up shanty town camps in the backcountry are annoying, I don’t have a problem with them, but the idea that they are the backbone of state conservation money is misleading and argument that quickly falls apart.

 

[MeatBuck]

Which part?

They aren’t making maps or carving out public lands themselves.
Instead they took all the hard work out of it. “Tax maps” for instance.

 

[Newtosavage]

Profiting off our public lands is the same reason I don’t subscribe to YouTube channels.
Sure it’s neat to watch a guy kill game on tv or wherever but when it’s in your backyard and the next seasons are followed by full parking lots and an Overcrowded backcountry, I can’t get behind that. Especially not in a way that puts money in someone else’s pockets. Meanwhile my freezer is empty and I’m having to spend my money on processed meat. F that.

Like I said in my post earlier, there is a Texas model for hunting if you are having problems with other taxpayers also using their taxpayer-funded land.

 

[Newtosavage]

They aren’t making maps or carving out public lands themselves.
Instead they took all the hard work out of it. “Tax maps” for instance.

And yet you yourself admit to using maps that you got for free, after someone else made them for you. I'm very confused as to what you're angry about.

 

[MeatBuck]

Anyone else see the irony in ranting about electronic technology on electronic technology...?

No. But I do see you’ve gone a new route with this point you tried to make.

 

[CJohnson]

They aren’t making maps or carving out public lands themselves.
Instead they took all the hard work out of it. “Tax maps” for instance.

If you say so. I work hard for my money. I gave some of my money to OnX so I could see what's what. So, I don't know if they took all the hard work out of it. There's something to be said for working smarter and not harder.

 

[Newtosavage]

No. But I do see you’ve gone a new route with this point you tried to make.

Still trying to figure out what your beef is, and with whom.

 

[MeatBuck]

You yourself admit to using maps that you got for free, after someone else made them for you.

Ya, public land maps that were made for public land users and made available for free is not the same as making profits off public lands by private app makers.
They took free maps and are charging you for them now.
Why take a free resource, put your name on it and sell it back to the hunting community?
Why take all the work out of it for everyone else? Why do u want more people trudging around the woods?
Why risk blowing out your own hunting locations?
$$$$ that’s y.

 

[gelton]

Tags sold in CO go to the state’s general fund, not conservation. The CPW budget exists independent of license sales. Now, in TN, by contrast, the state game agency’s budget exists exclusively off license sales (if no licenses were sold, they would lose their funding), but that’s the exception. All of these NR tags are funding state welfare programs as much as they are funding conservation. If NRs stop buying tags, the state will just raise taxes elsewhere for funding. So, while the NR hunters contributes to the economy, for the individual resident hunter, there is little direct benefit to the actual quality of the hunting experience from NRs buying tags marked up 1000%. As much as fat dudes taking up 4 parking spaces at the grocery store with their “rigs” and setting up shanty town camps in the backcountry are annoying, I don’t have a problem with them, but the idea that they are the backbone of state conservation money is misleading and argument that quickly falls apart.

Wow that is bass ackwards...true meaning of the welfare state...everyone laughs at Texas because of all the private land but 100% of our hunting and fishing licenses go straight to TPW...and I will be one of those fat guys showing up in late October.

 

[MeatBuck]

If you say so. I work hard for my money. I gave some of my money to OnX so I could see what's what. So, I don't know if they took all the hard work out of it. There's something to be said for working smarter and not harder.

Now A simple payment of $30 gets you all you need to know. No work involved

 

[Newtosavage]

Ya, public land maps that were made for public land users and made available for free is not the same as making profits off public lands by private app makers.
They took free maps and are charging you for them now.
Why take a free resource, put your name on it and sell it back to the hunting community?
Why take all the work out of it for everyone else? Why do u want more people trudging around the woods?
Why risk blowing out your own hunting locations?
$$$$ that’s y.

I think that's called capitalism - providing a service for a fee...

You act as if they do nothing at OnX or the other providers. LOL As if somehow all that technology just magically appears. The folks at OnX are being paid for the WORK they do. I can't do it, so I pay them to do it. I couldn't have produced those paper BLM maps either, so I paid BLM to do it.

and I have news for you. Nobody has their own hunting locations on public land. I think that's a false starting point you launched from.

 

[Newtosavage]

Now A simple payment of $30 gets you all you need to know. No work involved

How does your car operate? Do you push it, or do you put gas in it?

Do you generate your own electricity too?

Even native americans bartered for goods and services they couldn't produce themselves.

 

[AG8]

Now A simple payment of $30 gets you all you need to know. No work involved

If someone went down to the county courthouse for three hours to research tax maps, and someone spent three hours swinging a sledgehammer to earn $30 to pay for OnX, would you still say the fellow at the courthouse has “worked harder” for and is therefore more entitled to that same information?