Who else is managing land for whitetails?

[Long Cut]

Amen to all of that.

I have a fairly large farm. And I have decided deer hunting is better with multiple smaller parcels than one big parcel. Many reasons but one is if you spread out your land you hunt multiple deer populations rather than just one.

Bittersweet. I have a variety, some small and some large tracts of private land.

The large tracts are nice because most of the time, our bucks aren’t killed by any neighbors. Only a buck that lives on the edge of property lines but that’s to be expected.

We can also see our habitat work suck in more deer, bucks growing larger and does growing larger every single year. Large properties are a ton of work. Clearing trails, fixing roads, bridges, bushhogging, planting, keeping feeders full. It’s a part time job for multiple people.

I will say overall, there’s bigger deer on large, intensely managed tracts than smaller say 50-300 acre tracts.

We’re able to grow bucks that rival some Midwestern States in places a guy would never think they existed.

All because we let the right deer get old enough, and kill the bucks that would never surpass say 80-110” when they’re young.

 

[omicron1792]

When it comes to hunting and shooting, there are lots of things that people insist upon doing that don’t actually make a meaningful or measurable difference.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Agreed. This isn’t one of those.

Lots of science behind deer management data. It’s far from perfect, but doe harvest is not something that someone posted on the internet.

 

[omicron1792]

Bittersweet. I have a variety, some small and some large tracts of private land.

The large tracts are nice because most of the time, our bucks aren’t killed by any neighbors. Only a buck that lives on the edge of property lines but that’s to be expected.

We can also see our habitat work suck in more deer, bucks growing larger and does growing larger every single year. Large properties are a ton of work. Clearing trails, fixing roads, bridges, bushhogging, planting, keeping feeders full. It’s a part time job for multiple people.

I will say overall, there’s bigger deer on large, intensely managed tracts than smaller say 50-300 acre tracts.

We’re able to grow bucks that rival some Midwestern States in places a guy would never think they existed.

All because we let the right deer get old enough, and kill the bucks that would never surpass say 80-110” when they’re young.

My experience matches yours almost exactly.

I have grown and killed some monsters. But I have found getting too caught up in antler size can degrade the hunting experience for me. Also I, like you, spend so much dang time and money on my main farm I could take guided hunts around the world yearly instead and come out ahead.

A new buck slipping out of cover on a property I don’t hunt as much is a thrill. I also have two younger boys and seeing and harvesting deer is more important than killing 150”.

That said I do both. I intensely manage my main farm. AND I have smaller parcels that I set up good stands and choke points and hunt 1-2 times a year.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Agreed. This isn’t one of those.

Lots of science behind deer management data. It’s far from perfect, but doe harvest is not something that someone posted on the internet.

Shooting does is done to keep overall deer populations low. That’s all it does. It’s important only if you have too many deer (as we do in most of eastern Virginia). I can tell you with a certainty that we don’t have too many deer on our farm in western Virginia.

I also know that does aren’t running off bucks. And I know that during the rot, bucks will always be found where there are does. That’s just biology. Deer are polygamous. More does means more bucks drawn to them. And I am not seeing fawns getting dropped late in the year.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Long Cut]

My experience matches yours almost exactly.

I have grown and killed some monsters. But I have found getting too caught up in antler size can degrade the hunting experience for me. Also I, like you, spend so much dang time and money on my main farm I could take guided hunts around the world yearly instead and come out ahead.

A new buck slipping out of cover on a property I don’t hunt as much is a thrill. I also have two younger boys and seeing and harvesting deer is more important than killing 150”.

That said I do both. I intensely manage my main farm. AND I have smaller parcels that I set up good stands and choke points and hunt 1-2 times a year.

Yup 100% agree on focusing on just antlers ruining the experience.

My one large property is a lease with several guys that are all 100% about antlers & management. One of the guys killed a solid 130” buck on a 3 day WMA hunt. I was congratulating him over it when he said “I wouldn’t have shot that buck out here”..

Guys that fixate on antlers almost always get burnt out. I did and had to take a step back for a little bit. Now I shoot the first mature buck that gives me an opportunity.

That being said, having 1 large property and several smaller ones is the best combo in my opinion.
The large, heavily managed property is fun to have opportunities at “giants”, but it’s also nice to hunt a smaller property with a rut funnel and have no clue what may walk through.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I manage 15,000 acres, a control burn right off the bat was great to kill off bad weeds, next was feeding whole cotton seed in fenced off pens to exclude the cattle every 300 acres, next was taking the finger off the trigger except on does and 5-7yo 8pt and less for awhile
Quail are strip / edge sensitive, so brushy fence lines and mowing strips in cover and fields will increase your potential

 

[Honyock]

Lots of good ideas and suggestions. Maybe all of the wildlife biologists are wrong, but doe management is usually #1 on the list for deer management. If managing the doe population is not important to the overall health of the herd, why do states have antlerless seasons and encourage hunters to kill more does? In a perfect world you would want a 1:1 buck to doe ratio. This ensures that the mature, dominant bucks do the vast majority of the breeding instead of young and inferior bucks. Have you ever watched does run off young bucks during the rut? There's a reason why they do. It also creates a much better and longer rut activity since bucks have to compete for the does and work harder to find the hot does instead of does standing behind every tree. Killing does is also good practice for young hunters and new to the game hunters especially bow hunters. Oklahoma has a late rifle antlerless season and I try to bring youngsters and guys that have never hunted out to shoot does. We need to encourage more young people to hunt. A lot of states have a Hunters for the Hungry program or something similar so if you don't need the meat, you can donate your does and help someone else.

#2 IMHO on the list is stop shooting young bucks (2.5 and under bucks). If your primary goal is filling the freezer, kill does. Young does eat a lot better than bucks. The reason hunters see a lot of young bucks (2.5 and under) and not a lot of mature bucks (4.5+) is because young bucks are dumb. They also are not hard to kill because they are dumb. I've got nothing against the hunter that shoots the first decent buck that they see and call it a season. I realize that time and opportunity are factors for a lot of people and you have to take what you can in a limited amount of time. But if you're going to try to improve the quality and age distribution of bucks you've got to quit killing young bucks. The buck on the left in the picture below is 3.5 years old. At 2.5 he was a "decent" buck but took a big jump in size between 2.5 and 3.5 (anxious to see what he looks like at 4.5 assuming he survives the Orange Army for another year).

#3 IMHO is food/nutrients especially in the late winter and early spring. Kill plots for the fall/early winter are for hunting and serve their purpose, but late February through July are critical times for deer. Late February early March they are coming out of winter and need the protein, etc. the most. The does need to get fat and healthy to have the babies and lactate and the bucks have dropped their antlers and are starting to re-grow their antlers. We see a lot more twins with does than we used to since we started concentrating on spring/early summer plots and feeding.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

States have ample doe seasons because car insurance companies hate paying out claims for deer strikes. Other areas have ample doe permits due to agricultural interests. And many eastern states - particularly in suburban areas - have a ridiculously high deer population.

If your goal is to have fewer deer around, then killing does is the only realistic way to keep the population down.

Deer management is not a universal, one-size-fits-all thing. What works in one area makes no sense in others. Habitat dictates the best strategy. And the optimal strategy should change over time.

I like a consistent population of deer. I am not trying to grow trophies - particularly not trophies which will wander over to my neighbors’ land for them to shoot. I just want to have plenty of bucks around so that our family can take a few off the property every year.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Honyock]

States have ample doe seasons because car insurance companies hate paying out claims for deer strikes. Other areas have ample doe permits due to agricultural interests. And many eastern states - particularly in suburban areas - have a ridiculously high deer population.

If your goal is to have fewer deer around, then killing does is the only realistic way to keep the population down.

Deer management is not a universal, one-size-fits-all thing. What works in one area makes no sense in others. Habitat dictates the best strategy. And the optimal strategy should change over time.

I like a consistent population of deer. I am not trying to grow trophies - particularly not trophies which will wander over to my neighbors’ land for them to shoot. I just want to have plenty of bucks around so that our family can take a few off the property every year.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

I get that you're against killing does, you've been consistent on that. I've never heard of insurance companies dictating whether or not does are killed but it certainly may be the case where you live. Out of curiosity, does your state have a shortage of deer?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I get that you're against killing does, you've been consistent on that. I've never heard of insurance companies dictating whether or not does are killed but it certainly may be the case where you live. Out of curiosity, does your state have a shortage of deer?

Eastern Virginia is bursting with deer. Doe season in Lynchburg, for instance, goes from September to March, without limit.

Western Virginia still has several counties which are still trying to grow deer populations (endemic and rampant poaching in some counties really holds it down). Doe permits are much rarer there.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[S-3 ranch]

Lots of good ideas and suggestions. Maybe all of the wildlife biologists are wrong, but doe management is usually #1 on the list for deer management. If managing the doe population is not important to the overall health of the herd, why do states have antlerless seasons and encourage hunters to kill more does? In a perfect world you would want a 1:1 buck to doe ratio. This ensures that the mature, dominant bucks do the vast majority of the breeding instead of young and inferior bucks. Have you ever watched does run off young bucks during the rut? There's a reason why they do. It also creates a much better and longer rut activity since bucks have to compete for the does and work harder to find the hot does instead of does standing behind every tree. Killing does is also good practice for young hunters and new to the game hunters especially bow hunters. Oklahoma has a late rifle antlerless season and I try to bring youngsters and guys that have never hunted out to shoot does. We need to encourage more young people to hunt. A lot of states have a Hunters for the Hungry program or something similar so if you don't need the meat, you can donate your does and help someone else.

#2 IMHO on the list is stop shooting young bucks (2.5 and under bucks). If your primary goal is filling the freezer, kill does. Young does eat a lot better than bucks. The reason hunters see a lot of young bucks (2.5 and under) and not a lot of mature bucks (4.5+) is because young bucks are dumb. They also are not hard to kill because they are dumb. I've got nothing against the hunter that shoots the first decent buck that they see and call it a season. I realize that time and opportunity are factors for a lot of people and you have to take what you can in a limited amount of time. But if you're going to try to improve the quality and age distribution of bucks you've got to quit killing young bucks. The buck on the left in the picture below is 3.5 years old. At 2.5 he was a "decent" buck but took a big jump in size between 2.5 and 3.5 (anxious to see what he looks like at 4.5 assuming he survives the Orange Army for another year).

#3 IMHO is food/nutrients especially in the late winter and early spring. Kill plots for the fall/early winter are for hunting and serve their purpose, but late February through July are critical times for deer. Late February early March they are coming out of winter and need the protein, etc. the most. The does need to get fat and healthy to have the babies and lactate and the bucks have dropped their antlers and are starting to re-grow their antlers. We see a lot more twins with does than we used to since we started concentrating on spring/early summer plots and feedingView attachment 928472.

#3 answer is feed cotton seed , huge amount of protein & crude fat , usually add 20 pounds to a buck , helps with post rut recovery , great for doe to be ready for fawning, then boost fawn growth.
If that is a protein feeder it’s way too small , 1500-2500lbs free choice + a basket of WCS in a hog proof pen ,
Your feeder you got there is a raccoon feeder ( lol) so ditch it for a good one
Lots of fun work in the line up
Try for a 2-1.5:1 doe to buck ratio depending on natural recruitment from neighboring areas

Food plots are a bit more complex, vetch , sunhemp , peas , grazing radishes , clover ( in summer)

 

[Honyock]

#3 answer is feed cotton seed , huge amount of protein & crude fat , usually add 20 pounds to a buck , helps with post rut recovery , great for doe to be ready for fawning, then boost fawn growth.
If that is a protein feeder it’s way too small , 1500-2500lbs free choice + a basket of WCS in a hog proof pen ,
Your feeder you got there is a raccoon feeder ( lol) so ditch it for a good one
Lots of fun work in the line up
Try for a 2-1.5:1 doe to buck ratio depending on natural recruitment from neighboring areas

Food plots are a bit more complex, vetch , sunhemp , peas , grazing radishes , clover ( in summer)

We run three 1,500 pound timed gravity feeders, two 300 spin feeders (primarily for turkey) and the 200 lb free flow gravity feeder in the picture. The 200 lb is in a spot that's only accessible by foot and there is no way that you can get a big feeder in that location.

 

[Long Cut]

I manage 15,000 acres, a control burn right off the bat was great to kill off bad weeds, next was feeding whole cotton seed in fenced off pens to exclude the cattle every 300 acres, next was taking the finger off the trigger except on does and 5-7yo 8pt and less for awhile
Quail are strip / edge sensitive, so brushy fence lines and mowing strips in cover and fields will increase your potential
View attachment 928407View attachment 928408View attachment 928409View attachment 928410View attachment 928411View attachment 928412View attachment 928414View attachment 928415View attachment 928416View attachment 928417

I could pick your brain for hours, I love Texas whitetails. Bucket list of mine to hunt South Texas..

Anywho, it sounds like you started the management process on that 15k acres.. How long did it take to begin seeing changes in antler score on the overall buck herd?

From my experience it’s 3-5 years and you’ll see a nice buck here and there… then closer to year 10 you begin seeing a lot more “big” bucks every year.

Just curious your experiences on “big bucks” across your herd and landscape. I’d imagine roughly sub 10-20% of your buck herd at any given time would be deemed a “big buck” ?

**“Big” we”ll deem in excess of 150” (gross score) **