Worst thing to ever happen to elk hunting

[CJohnson]

But, seriously, why do people tuck their ears into a cap?

 

[Chefofthewoods]

I thought stormy kromer fixed that issue 100 years ago?

 

[Gapmaster]

Having lived in a area blessed with Elk/Deer and Blue ribbon Trout fishing for over 30yrs I have seen along with friends and local guides things change dramatically here in the last 10-15yrs, in not only the hunting but also to a even greater extent the fishing.

I along with many of you place the experience and quality of the hunt/fish higher on the list of importance than the harvest and that I'm sad to say at least in my area has gone down the toilet. Why has the experience gone downhill so fast? In my opinion it was caused by a lot of factors ranging from lose lips(I'm guilty of this) magazines, internet forums, youtube stars, social media and the overall ease at which data can be obtained and fine tuned.
The number of people that are running from cities to live in paradise the last few years has also added to the pressure.
Non residents that flock to Idaho to hunt and fish for their brief visit have no idea what it's like to live here year round, if you did you would understand why we're grumpy.

I completely understand why you are grumpy. While on a lesser note, the area I live in is mountainous for Arkansas and growing up I hardly ever saw anyone on the rivers or in the woods. Now we are overrun by Texas and Louisiana folks. I think the real problem is Respect and most nonresidents are pretty arrogant about where they are and what they are doing. But like I posted before, we all have hunted/fished new places before. So we all have “invaded” on someone’s spot before. It’s about how you do it, I think, that causes the problems.

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

I completely understand why you are grumpy. While on a lesser note, the area I live in is mountainous for Arkansas and growing up I hardly ever saw anyone on the rivers or in the woods. Now we are overrun by Texas and Louisiana folks. I think the real problem is Respect and most nonresidents are pretty arrogant about where they are and what they are doing. But like I posted before, we all have hunted/fished new places before. So we all have “invaded” on someone’s spot before. It’s about how you do it, I think, that causes the problems.

NM is like that too. Why is it always the Texans? LOL

I've seen more Texas and Cali plates than NM plates in the mountains lately. The same states hit with the most covid shit. Pretty funny.

Can't complain. Have property in Texas too, and i fish for their fish.

At least hunters and fisherman buy licenses to support the system. Most of the voyeur hikers, bikers, runners..ect that say they love the wild places oh so much certainly don't put their money into the conservation of it.

 

[Berger024]

" The times they are a-changin' " and "The only thing that is constant is change"
These adages are still here today because they are true. I'm sure we're all romantic about the spot we killed our biggest bull, buck, turk, whatever you're into. Truth be told, rarely is that romantic spot going to produce like that year after year after year. You have to roll with the punches and continue to put the work in. People who get pissed just because they see a vehicle with out of state plates need to relax. You need to take a cpl deep breathes of that mountain air. Everyone is coming from a different spot in life. Family, job, and friends usually dictate where you live. Just because I live in WNY means I can't or shouldn't hunt elk in some westerner's eyes? Why do some guys have a problem with that? Seems pretty foolish to eat your own when there are masses of Vegan PETA and "guns are bad -m'kay?" folks out there trying to ruin our sport and way of life. I've run into plenty of very, very nice folks on the road over the years. I've struck up some great conversations and even made a couple friends I still talk to. I'm pretty fortunate I've never run into anyone (that's voiced their opinion and made it clear I/we aren't welcome) it is a real shame to walk around with that train of thought.
It's your prerogative to get all bent out of shape because of an out of state hunter, but it really is energy wasted. Unless you own the land and he or she is trespassing, you really need to take a step back and take a deep breath and remember why you're out there. Public land, for the public - residents and non-residents alike.
This mentality that they shouldn't be out here and things were better 10-15-20years ago is the same that KODAK had when technology started switching from film to digital. Industry leaders are now a name and an afterthought because they couldn't adapt to the changing times. They stuck with the everyone else should change, not me attitude. Analog maps, OnX, AAA Trip-tics whatever you're into, just go out and hunt. While you're complaining about the good 'ole days, someone in a different state is using Onx to scout because they don't have the luxury to live 25 mins from elk/muley heaven.
Any of you northwesterners venture down south to enjoy the sun? I live in the snow belt around the Great Lakes...I sure do. Oddly enough, just because you were born in one state doesn't mean you can't travel to another to enjoy the weather, scenery, and everything else that the region has to offer.

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Western states should utilize Alaskas guide requirements. A friendly way to tamper the influx of disturbance. Not just the elk, the land out here as well.
That is my biggest erk is scouting in May/June, or just camping for that matter, and by August there is trash in our wilderness and the trails and roads are completely jacked up comparing to earlier months.
I remember growing up and it wasnt this way.

OnX. Whatever. Trail cameras? Whatever

 

[Maldavis]

Quick story here:

When I was building my house 20 years ago it was on a piece of my wife’s old family farm.I found it amazing the number of people who would attend the town hall meetings that had just recently build their house. They would try to get the board to vote on rule changes making it harder for the next guy to do what they had just done.
I see Western hunting and hunting in general much the same. Many hunters want to be the last one allowed to hunt certain areas or states once they have “ claimed “ their spot.
I can certainly see from their perspective. It just seems selfish to me and somewhat detrimental as this perspective has hunters at odds with each other, when we should be sticking together.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[davsco]

i'm sure a lot of folks e-scout from 2000 miles away, show up in the mtns, and with a few days tag out. certainly wasn't that easy for me, skunked two years in a row.

roads impassable due to weather, or gated, terrain impassable due to downed trees, selected spot in a horse outfitter thoroughfare, etc.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Instagram, YouTube, etc paired with the over-hype and over-commercialization of western big game hunting, directly and indirectly.

 

[Newtosavage]

Ain't it great that in this age of technology, so many folks are choosing to get outdoors instead of gaming in their basement?

We need advocates for the outdoors. We're worried about the next generation not hunting or fishing. There is power in numbers, and power in 1st hand knowledge of wild places.

I mean, those are all the things we have said for so long, right?

And now that we see it happening, we're complaining about it?

Man, aren't we an insufferable group.

 

[gelton]

Using Colorado as an example, I would go so far as to say that nearly 50%, if not more, of the big game licenses sold, are sold to nonresidents. That's 50% more money that goes to the state strictly to manage the game that we all hunt. Not to mention the butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers who all benefit where these hated nonresidents stop for gas, stay in hotels, and dine. Many small towns in these Western states survive and depend on nonresident hunters.

If some of you have your way, good luck with your economies, conservation, and most importantly dealing with the "liberals" (in name only) who want to whittle away at your god given rights...they have already taken over most of your statehouses.

 

[Newtosavage]

Using Colorado as an example, I would go so far as to say that nearly 50%, if not more, of the big game licenses sold, are sold to nonresidents. That's 50% more money that goes to the state strictly to manage the game that we all hunt. Not to mention the butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers who all benefit where these hated nonresidents stop for gas, stay in hotels, and dine. Many small towns in these Western states survive and depend on nonresident hunters.

That ain't 50% more money. It's more like 300% more money, just in tags and licenses alone. Then consider how much more money NR's put into the local economies vs. residents due to travel and lodging and groceries and equipment they buy once they arrive.

Hence the "insufferable" comment above...

I'm one of those NR's who looks forward to hunting CO every fall. This will be my 6th year straight. Took me 45 years to be able to afford those NR tags. I figure by the end of my hunt this year, I will have put roughly $6K into the CO economy and I have removed a total of ONE big game animal in those 6 years. I bet my success ratio is pretty tyical of NR's too.

So, are the residents of the state really interested in giving up $6K for every animal a NR harvests, compared to what they contribute? I doubt it.

As for folks in the backcountry, I have gone to CO every summer with my family to see our son, who lives there. Whenever we go up in the mountains, the parking lots at every trail head are slammed with hikers and mountain bikers - mostly residents.

I think what bothers a lot of CO resident hunters is that there are 1) more people in the state, period, and 2) the younger folks are more active in the outdoors than they used to be.

Blame NR hunters all you want, but you're complaining about the wrong problem IMO, and in fact, cursing folks who are actually helping you manage the places and critters you love.

Finally, to the OP's point, if you think only NR's are scouting electronically these days, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Newtosavage]

I'll add that there is NO EXCUSE for poor manners in the hunting woods, be that from residents or non-residents. I wouldn't want some NR from Colorado drifting through a school of specks on the bay any more than they want me being an a$$ near their hunting camp. I do my best not to be, and always appreciate it when others do the same.

 

[SIontheHunt]

what about all these fancy automobiles with their 4 wheel drive letting those lazy bastards travel 1000s of miles and get into my hunting spot while I meander through the hills via my horse drawn carriage? not to mention planes. And all these fancy fabrics that let all these weaklings make it in bad weather that i previously had to myself and my oiled buckskin?

 

[MeatBuck]

Op, no you aren’t.

My thing is, you shouldnt have to pay a membership fee to see who owns what land. That should be free public records.

Then there’s the fact that guys are profiting from those membership fees meanwhile our local public lands are filling up with ppl who never had a clue these places existed and would have never found them otherwise. They get there and walk around looking at their cellphones and pointing at landmarks. Without a clue how to approach the area, they end up walking open ridges or through timber pockets, blowing out the game. In one scouting trip a guy or two can pressure the game enough to change their pattern or bedding area, or worse, cause them to go nocturnal.
What’s worse is they’ll bring in and set up other “scouting tools”(cameras), meaning they’ll be back to trudge through all the same countryside again (or multiple times) to check them or move them, then post and/or share the pics with anyone who will give them a “like”. Then do the same (if by chance they were successful) either by showing off the area in background of harvest photos or just get so excited about their “new spot” that they just show off the landscape for everyone to see. Even just showing a quality animal can have guys salivating and jumping on their map apps to try to find out where that pic was taken.

Putting all that aside, to me you shouldn’t be profiting off the exploitation of America’s public lands and natural resources, nor should electronic technology be substituted for hard work, sweat, and boots on the ground. The game doesn’t get to use it, why should we?

Look at it this way, we as humans are already on a rapid course to absolutely destroy the world we live in, why speed up the process with technology?

When you start putting profits first, well, just look at what we’ve done to the earth because of $$$. We’ll do the same to our hunting opportunities, I’m certain.

 

[Gapmaster]

I guess if we didn’t have access to the National Forest in other states, (Guides mandates, etc..) then we would also get a tax break from helping maintain it? NF lands is OUR land...every body’s...not just whoever happens to live next to it.. State lands are different I believe. And before someone says I’m a nonresident I wouldn’t get it, I live 10 miles from a huge National Forest with nonresidents using it more all the time. So ya I get it.

 

[Newtosavage]

Op, no you aren’t.

My thing is, you shouldnt have to pay a membership fee to see who owns what land. That should be free public records.

Then there’s the fact that guys are profiting from those membership fees meanwhile our local public lands are filling up with ppl who never had a clue these places existed and would have never found them otherwise. They get there and walk around looking at their cellphones and pointing at landmarks. Without a clue how to approach the area, they end up walking open ridges or through timber pockets, blowing out the game. In one scouting trip a guy or two can pressure the game enough to change their pattern or bedding area, or worse, cause them to go nocturnal.
What’s worse is they’ll bring in and set up other “scouting tools”(cameras), meaning they’ll be back to trudge through all the same countryside again (or multiple times) to check them or move them, then post and/or share the pics with anyone who will give them a “like”. Then do the same (if by chance they were successful) either by showing off the area in background of harvest photos or just get so excited about their “new spot” that they just show off the landscape for everyone to see. Even just showing a quality animal can have guys salivating and jumping on their map apps to try to find out where that pic was taken.

Putting all that aside, to me you shouldn’t be profiting off the exploitation of America’s public lands and natural resources, nor should electronic technology be substituted for hard work, sweat, and boots on the ground. The game doesn’t get to use it, why should we?

Look at it this way, we as humans are already on a rapid course to absolutely destroy the world we live in, why speed up the process with technology?

When you start putting profits first, well, just look at what we’ve done to the earth because of $$$. We’ll do the same to our hunting opportunities, I’m certain.

So the folks who sold you those paper maps all those years ago... they were wrong to sell you those?

Trying to follow this line of logic here...

 

[MeatBuck]

So the folks who sold you those paper maps all those years ago... they were wrong to sell you those?

Trying to follow this line of logic here...

Never bought any maps, always used free maps that blm offers. Haven’t used a map in years. Don’t need one to hunt the back of my hand.

 

[MeatBuck]

So the folks who sold you those paper maps all those years ago... they were wrong to sell you those?

Trying to follow this line of logic here...

Those folks making the maps were United States geological survey crews and the like, the states were likely using the map funds to put back into the lands. Not a handful of private app creators fattening their pockets because hunting is “in” right now.
Even public lands.org has gone to shit over it

 

[Newtosavage]

Never bought any maps, always used free maps that blm offers. Haven’t used a map in years. Don’t need one to hunt the back of my hand.

I haven't seen a free BLM map in over 30 years. I have a pile of them that all cost me about $8-10 each. But someone had to pay for those maps. Maybe you were just used to being subsidized by gov't map makers and now we pay a private enterprise for that information? I thought that was called capitalism.

I see zero difference between a guy looking down at a paper map 30 years ago, and a guy looking down at the app on his phone today. They are both using the technology available to them at the time.

Again, for decades us hunters have complained about not having a voice and worrying about the future of hunting. Well, there is strength in numbers so we should all be happy to see younger folks out there hunting if it's really the future of hunting and open lands we care about, and not just having our tiny little favorite spot all to ourselves.

I was raised in Texas and they have found a solution to all the things you complain about here. It's called paying for land or paying for a lease. Then you don't have to look at guys wandering around staring at their phones. Problem solved.