Worst thing to ever happen to elk hunting

[ktg]

OnX has let me go places that I wouldn't have gone before, for example, getting to and from a hunting area in the dark. When i leave at 3am to get to my spot an hour before sunrise, I spend most of the the hike looking at my phone. No way I could do that without my phone.

 

[bdg848]

I agree with tv shows and youtube channels giving away a spot but disagree that "escouting" is somehow a negative. Google earth has been around for decades....You're saying I could narrow down the potential spots to check on foot later from dozens to a few but that I shouldn't?

 

[Deadfall]

Humans

 

[Newtosavage]

I agree with tv shows and youtube channels giving away a spot but disagree that "escouting" is somehow a negative. Google earth has been around for decades....You're saying I could narrow down the potential spots to check on foot later from dozens to a few but that I shouldn't?

You make a great point that someone that is good at using aerial imagery and maps on line will most likely be less intrusive in the woods because they might wander less. Something to think about.

Last winter, I had a snafu with my headlamp about 2.3 miles into a wilderness area. I had just shot a nice buck and it got pitch dark while I was quartering him and loading him in my pack. By the time I had everything packed and on my way, it was 2 hours after sunset and I was in a deep forest. I could barely see my hand in front of my face it was so dark. About 1/4 mile before finding the main trail, my headlamp went completely dead. My backup was dead too. I had a general idea of which direction to go to hit the main trail, but no light to see and there were some bends in the creek I was following with sharp 10' dropoffs and stump holes covered by pine needles.

I turned on my OnX app, waited for the signal, and then used the screen light to make my way back to the main trail. Once I was there, I was okay, but that 20-30 min. was touch and go. I have a great sense of direction, but the flat bottomland woods I was in could get anyone lost in the dark, no matter how long they have hunted places like that. No moon and you couldn't see enough stars to navigate.

I'm sure I would have made it out okay eventually, but frankly without a GPS of some kind, I could have been circling in the dark for hours and might even have crossed that main trail without knowing it.

Like I said, I have a great sense of direction. As good as anyone I know. But I'm very grateful for the computer jocks that put together GPS and OnX mapping apps.

Work smarter, not harder. Isn't that what our dads always taught us?

 

[Mkrueger88]

Even living in and around the areas I elk hunt and scouting extensively (over 30 days this summer), I continue to be surprised at how much boots on the ground and topo scouting fail to reconcile with one another, how cumbersome and slow getting around off piste in elk country is and how endlessly difficult elk hunting is even when you have things figured out.

Now, I resent the entitlement of social media information. People who often have not invested the work (any work at all) ask questions looking for information that is shared publicly. Some other people, apparently who feel empowered by sharing details that they should not be sharing on public forums, tend to respond in great detail. In some sense, the layers of mystery are pulled back because all one has to do is ask a bunch of questions on the internet and they feel empowered enough to make plans that are well beyond their experience level. I am shocked by the amount of hunters who seem to know absolutely nothing, 0, about about backpacking, backcountry camping, cold weather etc who are planning “pack hunts” for elk, in some cases even into 3rd rifle season. I can only imagine what kind of disastrous failures that are going down in elk country, how many first hunts absolutely fall apart within the first couple of hours and how many people are experiencing the most humbling set of circumstances they will experience in their entire lives.

Silver lining? I can only speculate that many hunters who over extend themselves after feeling emboldened by easy accessible information are absolutely crushed by the reality and we will hit a tipping point where enough crushed aspirations result in the De romanticism of Western Hunting. I recall once walking by the bus station in Nashville and seeing a kid getting off a bus with a guitar case in hand and laughing out loud. That’s the state of social media hunting.

Not just hunting I see so many people just hiking in the mountains during the summer in way over their head not prepared in the slightest for what could potentially be waiting for them.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Not just hunting I see so many people just hiking in the mountains during the summer in way over their head not prepared in the slightest for what could potentially be waiting for them.

Offshore in the Gulf of Mexico, we call those folks "Googans"

 

[Whaledriver]

ONX MAPS and loudmouths on you tube.

Gone are the days that a guy had to pick up a paper map and go for a hike to find a good spot or explore access, find wallows, trails and new country. Now any joe blow from anywhere in the world can sit on his couch and "scout". Sure, its handy, but there is no work involved. I realize you can never truly learn an area until you have physically been there, but nonetheless it truly frustrates me. Every year for the past few years I show up at the place only I used to hunt only to be greeted by several non resident vehicles. Wonder how they found it...


Am I the only one??

Careful there. "Your" spot is actually "their" spot which is also "my" spot. Nothing really pisses me off more than someone laying claim to something they do not exclusively own. Save your pennies and buy yourself some private land. Until then, enjoy the awesome public land that we can all call "ours" for now.

PS. Remember, just because you see a nonresident tag do not assume that they were never a resident for several decades before yourself.

 

[Sled]

OnX has let me go places that I wouldn't have gone before, for example, getting to and from a hunting area in the dark. When i leave at 3am to get to my spot an hour before sunrise, I spend most of the the hike looking at my phone. No way I could do that without my phone.

am i missing the sarcasm here?

any handheld gps will get you there without and onx chip.

 

[Buglebrush]

The introduction of wolves will prove to be the tipping point in the decline of otc elk hunting. They affect so much more than mere predation.

 

[Will_m]

I haven't seen a free BLM map in over 30 years. I have a pile of them that all cost me about $8-10 each. But someone had to pay for those maps. Maybe you were just used to being subsidized by gov't map makers and now we pay a private enterprise for that information? I thought that was called capitalism.

I see zero difference between a guy looking down at a paper map 30 years ago, and a guy looking down at the app on his phone today. They are both using the technology available to them at the time.

Again, for decades us hunters have complained about not having a voice and worrying about the future of hunting. Well, there is strength in numbers so we should all be happy to see younger folks out there hunting if it's really the future of hunting and open lands we care about, and not just having our tiny little favorite spot all to ourselves.

I was raised in Texas and they have found a solution to all the things you complain about here. It's called paying for land or paying for a lease. Then you don't have to look at guys wandering around staring at their phones. Problem solved.

You can’t possibly be serious that there is no difference in looking at a paper map with topo or very poor satellite imagery and having an app on your phone with high quality topographical imagery that updates your position in real time.

It’s not even close. If you can’t agree to that then you have never done serious land nav.

I don’t understand why people cannot accept the reality that by making things easier, more people will use the resource; if more people use the resource, the quality of the usable resource will decline.

I use all of the mapping software available to me and I shoot a compound bow, scour the Internet for info, use gps and will use whatever else becomes available. That being said, I know we are collectively shooting ourselves in the foot.

If you hunt because you enjoy wild (or as wild as they can be) places, those days are quickly declining. The situation with property In Texas is about the worst thing that could happen and is a terrible model. Privatization sucks for the hunter, plain and simple.

 

[Newtosavage]

You can’t possibly be serious that there is no difference in looking at a paper map with topo or very poor satellite imagery and having an app on your phone with high quality topographical imagery that updates your position in real time.

It’s not even close. If you can’t agree to that then you have never done serious land nav.

I don’t understand why people cannot accept the reality that by making things easier, more people will use the resource; if more people use the resource, the quality of the usable resource will decline.

I use all of the mapping software available to me and I shoot a compound bow, scour the Internet for info, use gps and will use whatever else becomes available. That being said, I know we are collectively shooting ourselves in the foot.

If you hunt because you enjoy wild (or as wild as they can be) places, those days are quickly declining. The situation with property In Texas is about the worst thing that could happen and is a terrible model. Privatization sucks for the hunter, plain and simple.

It actually sounds like you might be the one who has "never done serious land nav."

What year did you finish your surveying cert or complete your carto courses? It was 1988 for me. I learned surveying the old way, with a transit and steel chain. You do know what a steel surveying chain is, right? A paper USGS topo map is like a 3D image to me. So yea, to me, there isn't that much difference between a good paper map and OnX for the purpose of navigation and I don't go anywhere without paper maps to this day. My point was paper maps were the technology of their day that allowed MORE folks to navigate into the hunting woods than could without them. Before all those readily available paper maps, what did people do? I got bi*ched at by quite a few ranchers in NM who wanted to tell me my BLM maps "were wrong" because I was using them to access hunting areas in the 80's and 90's. Different technology, same outcome. Those maps put more people on public lands.

I don't understand why people cannot accept the fact that by more people being comfortable (and safe) hunting EVERYONE'S land, we have more advocates for said land and the hunting lifestyle we hold dear.

As for the situation in Texas, it probably is the worst thing that could happen for the have-nots. But for those who have land, or access to private land, there are a lot of advantages to having control over who has access. I'm not saying I want the whole U.S. to be 98% privately owned like Texas is. Far from it. I was just pointing out to one angry member that he has choices.

It's no different in the West. Thousands of guys/year pay for access to private land or hire a guide. Why isn't the grumpy old man angry about that? They aren't "working" as hard as he is, are they?

This is just another example of hunters eating their own and I just refuse to sit by idly and let it go unchallenged. We all should support one another, even if that means having to find another place to hunt every now and then, or (gasp!) SHARING our public land "spot" with someone else.

This is why I never get too attached to a particular spot. Because I know it leads to his kind of frustration, and I know it's pointless because we're hunting EVERYONE'S land. When I don't get drawn for my first choice unit or when someone already has the campsite I wanted or there are more trucks at a trailhead than I care to compete with, I always see that as an opportunity to go somewhere new and see some new ground, which is a big part of what this style of hunting is to me in the first place. I can't understand having access to millions of acres of public land, and hunting the same places year after year. How boring.

 

[Will_m]

It actually sounds like you might be the one who has "never done serious land nav."

What year did you finish your surveying cert or complete your carto courses? It was 1988 for me. I learned surveying the old way, with a transit and steel chain. You do know what a steel surveying chain is, right? A paper USGS topo map is like a 3D image to me. So yea, to me, there isn't that much difference between a good paper map and OnX for the purpose of navigation and I don't go anywhere without paper maps to this day. My point was paper maps were the technology of their day that allowed MORE folks to navigate into the hunting woods than could without them. Before all those readily available paper maps, what did people do? I got bi*ched at by quite a few ranchers in NM who wanted to tell me my BLM maps "were wrong" because I was using them to access hunting areas in the 80's and 90's. Different technology, same outcome. Those maps put more people on public lands.

I don't understand why people cannot accept the fact that by more people being comfortable (and safe) hunting EVERYONE'S land, we have more advocates for said land and the hunting lifestyle we hold dear.

As for the situation in Texas, it probably is the worst thing that could happen for the have-nots. But for those who have land, or access to private land, there are a lot of advantages to having control over who has access. I'm not saying I want the whole U.S. to be 98% privately owned like Texas is. Far from it. I was just pointing out to one angry member that he has choices.

It's no different in the West. Thousands of guys/year pay for access to private land or hire a guide. Why isn't the grumpy old man angry about that? They aren't "working" as hard as he is, are they?

This is just another example of hunters eating their own and I just refuse to sit by idly and let it go unchallenged. We all should support one another, even if that means having to find another place to hunt every now and then, or (gasp!) SHARING our public land "spot" with someone else.

This is why I never get too attached to a particular spot. Because I know it leads to his kind of frustration, and I know it's pointless because we're hunting EVERYONE'S land. When I don't get drawn for my first choice unit or when someone already has the campsite I wanted or there are more trucks at a trailhead than I care to compete with, I always see that as an opportunity to go somewhere new and see some new ground, which is a big part of what this style of hunting is to me in the first place. I can't understand having access to millions of acres of public land, and hunting the same places year after year. How boring.

I guess it would have been more accurate for me to say that there is a big difference in someone who is unfamiliar with navigation by map and compass and the use of stuff of like onx maps. Lower barrier to entry since you can just plug and play with the digital stuff now. Basically you can just go wherever you want without regard for getting lost or wondering where you are going. So anybody can get off the couch and get after it.

But as far as the "land nav" section of my remark calling into question your familiarity with map and compass navigation , well..........

 

[Newtosavage]

I guess it would have been more accurate for me to say that there is a big difference in someone who is unfamiliar with navigation by map and compass and the use of stuff of like onx maps. Lower barrier to entry since you can just plug and play with the digital stuff now. Basically you can just go wherever you want without regard for getting lost or wondering where you are going. So anybody can get off the couch and get after it.

But as far as the "land nav" section of my remark calling into question your familiarity with map and compass navigation , well..........

Fair enough.

In any activity, there will always be a few who complain about "how easy" folks have it today. The funny thing is, those folks who have it "so easy" would gladly exchange that convenience for "the good 'ol days" the complainers enjoyed all those years before. But the complainers never think about that.

Haters gonna hate, as the young ones say.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Ya have completely missed it. The very worst thing to happen to elk hunting is dudes painting their face and then getting on YouTube and acting like a fool. Make painting your face illegal and you would eliminate the a ton of folks on the mountains. Its the only reason for a boat load of new hunters.

Can we use burnt cork as long as we don’t make it look like Chris bracket? It really does help with the white face!

 

[ktg]

am i missing the sarcasm here?

any handheld gps will get you there without and onx chip.

Why buy a handheld gps when I already have a phone?

 

[gelton]

You can’t possibly be serious that there is no difference in looking at a paper map with topo or very poor satellite imagery and having an app on your phone with high quality topographical imagery that updates your position in real time.

It’s not even close. If you can’t agree to that then you have never done serious land nav.

I don’t understand why people cannot accept the reality that by making things easier, more people will use the resource; if more people use the resource, the quality of the usable resource will decline.

I use all of the mapping software available to me and I shoot a compound bow, scour the Internet for info, use gps and will use whatever else becomes available. That being said, I know we are collectively shooting ourselves in the foot.

If you hunt because you enjoy wild (or as wild as they can be) places, those days are quickly declining. The situation with property In Texas is about the worst thing that could happen and is a terrible model. Privatization sucks for the hunter, plain and simple.

Everyone that refers to the "situation" in Texas or how Texas is the worst model of "conservation" due to the lack of public lands has no idea of what the history of Texas is all about. We were our own nation, not a territory that had to give up land in order to join the union.

Most of the large tracts of private land go all the way back to Mexican land grants that were grandfathered in when Texas became independent. How this differs from Western Territories is that when Texas entered the Union, it was stipulated that all land would belong to Texans except Federal Military and Civil posts. So when comparing the Texas model to the Western model of conservation, at least know why it is the way it is...it isn't a "situation".

Its also not that bad having a year-round hunting season with unlimited hogs and exotics, a four deer per year limit in most counties with a season that starts in October and lasts through the end of December, and not having to pick a short 7-30 day "season" to hunt big game as happens in most western states.

 

[Will_m]

Everyone that refers to the "situation" in Texas or how Texas is the worst model of "conservation" due to the lack of public lands has no idea of what the history of Texas is all about. We were our own nation, not a territory that had to give up land in order to join the union.

Most of the large tracts of private land go all the way back to Mexican land grants that were grandfathered in when Texas became independent. How this differs from Western Territories is that when Texas entered the Union, it was stipulated that all land would belong to Texans except Federal Military and Civil posts. So when comparing the Texas model to the Western model of conservation, at least know why it is the way it is...it isn't a "situation".

Its also not that bad having a year-round hunting season with unlimited hogs and exotics, a four deer per year limit in most counties with a season that starts in October and lasts through the end of December, and not having to pick a short 7-30 day "season" to hunt big game as happens in most western states.

Interesting point, as I certainly did not know this. Sounds like merry old England though.

Give me public lands or give me death! Wasn't the rallying cry for the revolution something like that?

 

[String&stick]

Out of state plates don’t mean jack. I’ll be rolling into Montana with southern plates and I grew up there before it was fashionable. Lic plates don’t tell you jack, I had the spots I’m going 20 years before you, too bad if my plates don’t match.

Erroneous, erroneous on all accounts! You are now an evil non resident! You are a part of the problem! Turn from your evil ways and return to paying taxes in the state or be branded a trader!

 

[Sled]

Why buy a handheld gps when I already have a phone?

so there was no sarcasm. ok, my point was that onx is not needed to navigate confidently. there are plenty of other phone gps apps. the other point is if you drop your gps you are upset. if you are truly gps/ onx dependent and if you drop your phone and break the screen you are screwed. same goes if your phone decides to interfere with the gps signal, which does happen from time to time. always have a backup navigation plan if you're in the real mountains. rescue is not close.




to the tax maps guy, things are worth what people will pay for them. lets say i come over to your house and offer to scoop your dog poop for free. a week later i come back with a little saw dust and your dog poop and sell it back to you as fertilizer. same repackaging as onx.

i'd guess at some point you or some of your family has bought fertilizer that would have been free had you bothered to put in the "leg work".


there are plenty of other advancements on the web that has blown up good hunting spots. onx is simply an organized navigational tool.

 

[Buglebrush]

This thread is reminding me to put my spare Idaho license plates over my
WA ones when I park...