Why cant people accept the fact that some people dont need a drop tested scope?

[Tod osier]

Some folks seem to miss the fact that they are on a website called rokslide, and not kornpile.

Maybe there needs to be a designation WKR vs WKK .

 

[Macintosh]

Yeah, some folks are pretty hardcore. There’s also all the folks that tripped over it on the bipod, regularly drop it while leaning it against a tree, wreck the atv while carrying etc. As someone who has hunted primarily solo for decades, in all sorts of terrain and weather, I’ve found that the same attention to not getting hurt and ruining a hunt/burdoning SAR folks/dying while traversing tough terrain also has worked really well in avoiding beating the shit out of my gear. Doesn’t mean avoiding slips and falls altogether, but paying attention when appropriate and controlling falls when they happen goes a long ways.

Having reliable gear is great, but the pride in dropping one’s rifle and beating it up by generally bumbling through the mountains in this forum is fricken odd.


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This is certainly true, and my experience is also that different regions have different hazards as well, ie the likely types of fall (or whatever) can often be different, ie around me the “hardest core” hunting I can get into is tracking deer in the mountains in snow—tends to be easy-ish footing most of the time, but its also real easy to go ass over teakettle on 4” of slippery snow on top of wet leaves and slimy fallen branches on a steep slope. But hunting in other places I might not get into snow ever, or its always deeper snow, or its rocks and shale, etc. Anyway, it’s still all normal terrain for the mountains, and just because a fall isnt “normal” doesnt mean its “unlikely”. And again, we are talking about falls, but we’re also talking about scopes losing zero just from normal field usage—carrying on a pack, slung over a shoulder through brush, being bumped around inside a vehicle on rough roads, etc even without any fall is rougher handling than what caused my personal scopes to lose zero. For an easterner who reads a website focused on western hunting, the durability issues I think about are also stuff like how baggage handlers treat my gun on an airline trip. Having watched baggage handlers throw my pelican case 5-10’ onto the loading ramp and then topple onto the runway, Id say the 36” drops in the eval are bare minimum!

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Some folks seem to miss the fact that they are on a website called rokslide, and not kornpile.

We have a winner.

 

[wyosam]

Some folks seem to miss the fact that they are on a website called rokslide, and not kornpile.

Wear that hardcore badge with pride, sir. Suspect this was directed at me. Just to be clear, I’ve never hunted anywhere near corn, predominantly the mountains of Wyoming, now AK.


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[JGRaider]

We have a winner.

That's freaking funny no matter which side of the fence you're on.

 

[roosiebull]

Well, I got too far behind in this thread to catch up, has everyone reached an agreement yet?

 

[gerry35]

Well, I got too far behind in this thread to catch up, has everyone reached an agreement yet?

Yes

 

[wyosam]

Well, I got too far behind in this thread to catch up, has everyone reached an agreement yet?

Yep, full consensus was reached. Reliable scopes are great, and people are clumsy.


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[JGRaider]

Yep, full consensus was reached. Reliable scopes are great, and people are clumsy.


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And some folks spend way too much time worrying what someone else is using, and that some people's actual experiences may be different than their own. They can't handle that fact.

 

[fwafwow]

And everyone arguing in this threadsome folks spends way too much time worrying about this topicwhat someone else is using, and that some people's actual experiences may be different than their own. They can't handle that fact.

Fify

 

[jimh406]

Yeah, I find it pretty strange that people drop their guns and don't revalidate zero.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

"Most hunters hunt distances that a scope wandering 5MOA wouldn't matter so drop testing is BS for most and its completely ethical for me to recommend scopes that are repeatedly shown to wander alot despite me knowing zero about the person asking for a recommendation and me not issuing any caveat for my favorite brand recommendation but then these annoying drop test folks come along and..." is about the most messed up argument I've ever heard.

NO ONE cares if an unreliable scope still kills a pile of animals because the ranges are so short and its a moronic argument. Folks are welcome to use an unreliable scope knowingly, no one cares, its their hunt. We only care to make sure they actually know that potential because WE all lived it and wasted time/money/stunted our shooting.

Everyone remember thinking it was completely normal to dial a scope, tap on the scope to help settle that adjustment into place and still disregard the first shot because the erector was settling in still typically, then going with the next few shots to confirm zero?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Yeah, I find it pretty strange that people drop their guns and don't revalidate zero.

Your info says western MT, you don't have instances of slipping and falling over while hiking around off terrain in the mountains? Every time that happens do you range something 100yds out and fire off a shot in the basin you're hunting? What if is dark still when this happens, do you skip hunting first light? I would find it odd using equipment that makes me think a small slip would require that, if that is what you're talking about.

Sure if I knock a rifle off the tailgate of my truck I'm gonna want to verify the setup and I don't think anyone is arguing about doing so.

 

[Macintosh]

@jimh406 what level of impact do you think should trigger a revalidation of your zero? Why THAT level of bump, and not a gentler one? Or a more severe one? Is this based on testing, or arbitrary, or some other reason?

If you had personally subjected your gun to multiple bumps from various directions, etc that were all more severe than your “trigger level” and proven that the gun (including gun, scope, rings, etc) did not shift zero in those cases, would you still check zero every time? Why?

 

[jimh406]

Your info says western MT, you don't have instances of slipping and falling over while hiking around off terrain in the mountains?

Of course, not all terrain in MT is the same. Nevertheless, shouldn't it be a rare occurrence of falling/dropping their gun? If not, then maybe the person should think about what they are doing.

 

[jimh406]

@jimh406 what level of impact do you think should trigger a revalidation of your zero?

Put it another way, there is an "impact" from simply shooting the gun. Did that last shot throw off your zero? Who knows.

In any case, what I do has nothing to do with what other people should do. That's up to them.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Nevertheless, shouldn't it be a rare occurrence of falling/dropping their gun? If not, then maybe the person should think about what they are doing.

I certainly strive for it. But I do slip at times too and it would really suck for me personally if slipping and falling meant I knew my hunt was over until I rezeroed and also knowing there is a different equipment combo that would provide more demonstrable peace of mind that I've chosen not to capitalize on.

 

[roosiebull]

Put it another way, there is an "impact" from simply shooting the gun. Did that last shot throw off your zero? Who knows.

In any case, what I do has nothing to do with what other people should do. That's up to them.

I think that was his point, how hard of an impact does your rifle have to survive before you will not shoot at an animal without verifying zero?

If you were setting up for a shot, rifle sitting on hard ground on a bipod, and you have your tripod setup with your binos looking one last time before shooting, scoot your tripod over to clear a bush and nock your rifle over doing so… are you still taking the shot? Are you hoping it didn’t shift, or are you completely confident? Or are you going somewhere to shoot your rifle to make sure?

What about getting ready by your pickup in the dark before hiking in, rest your barrel on the tire while putting your pack on and knock it over… are you giving up on that day 2hrs before it starts to check zero? Are you going hunting anyway figuring you won’t see anything you’ll shoot anyway? And if so, you get on your first glassing point and there is a stud 270yds below you first thing… shooting with confidence? Shooting at all?

What about the last 10 miles of driving is a crappy bumpy pothole filled road, are you going assume your rifle held zero? Or death by 1000 small impacts and will have to shoot a confirmation shot?

 

[CorbLand]

Of course, not all terrain in MT is the same. Nevertheless, shouldn't it be a rare occurrence of falling/dropping their gun? If not, then maybe the person should think about what they are doing.

I am 32 and got my drivers license when I was 14, so 18 years of me driving, 32 years of riding in cars. I have never been in a car wreck where a seat belt would have been the difference between serious injury or not, yet I still put one on when I get in the vehicle.

Statistics show that I have another 45 years of life, yet I have life insurance.

8 years of owning an inReach and never pushed the SOS button but I still pay for it each month.

Something may be rare but still worth preventing/hedging against.

I would agree with people that don't like the scope evals or think they are flawed or unnecessary if every time someone asked "I have 400 bucks for a scope" and people were consistently saying "you have to spend 1600" but there are scopes in each price point that have better results than others. Yes, there are people that will always say 1600 or bust but that happens in everything.

 

[Macintosh]

Put it another way, there is an "impact" from simply shooting the gun. Did that last shot throw off your zero? Who knows.

In any case, what I do has nothing to do with what other people should do. That's up to them.

Thats really evading the question. You stated that “I find it pretty strange that people drop their guns and don't revalidate zero.” Despite having tested their guns specifically for such things and verified that it doesnt shift after a drop like that.

So Im wondering, if you find it strange to not check even after testing it and verifying that it didnt shift under multiple impacts from 36”, what level of impact would cause you to check your zero? I’m assuming you dont check your zero after EVERY impact on your gun such as recoil (as you mentioned), very minor stuff like slinging the gun over your shoulder and having it bump into your pack, having it strapped to a pack and putting your pack down to get a drink, bumps from driving on rutted roads, etc. I dont think it’s unreasonable to not check zero after these impacts (even though Ive had scopes fail from gentler handling than any of the above), and I dont think thats what you are suggesting, so Im curious what you think is a sufficient impact that you check your zero, and how you arrived at that distinction between “I need to check” and “I dont need to check”?

Really, Im not trying to set a trap here, I laid out my thought process exactly as Im thinking about it. Im just trying to understand what you think would be a better solution.

Personally, I have dropped my hunting rifle and checked zero and it held. When I have minor impacts in the field that are less than what Ive tested, I dont bother to check. When Ive fallen hard, Ive checked, despite feeling pretty confident it would be fine (it was). Just curious what your math is.