What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[JGRaider]

No- they have a problem with people that aren’t having a good faith discussion. You are consistently having bad faith interactions here.





Why is it odd? If BC was the only thing that mattered, everyone would be shooting lathe turned solids. A 30-40 point BC difference that shows up passed 600’ish yards does not effect most people’s shooting. Even still, if you can change a tip material and make a bullet better- why wouldn’t you?

This is exactly what I said about about a bad faith discussion. The vast majority of your responses are based on fallacies- generally appeals to authority and red herrings (as above).

Show one person that has said “Amax’s suck”. You are the only one that makes that nonsensical statement.

Nope, not bad faith at all, but I'm not a "yes man" either. If you tested them so thoroughly why didn't you come out with the "performance" problem of the Amax prior to Hornady's announcement? I find your take on "fallacies" laughable quite frankly. Just because I don't necessarily agree with 100% of what you say doesn't make them a fallacy. Pretty sure that's why you left 24HCF because so many people disagreed with you.

Hornady did come out and for all practical purposes say the Amax was seriously flawed and changed it. nobody ever said a negative word prior to that.

 

[Formidilosus]

Couldn't care less about any validation here or anywhere else. It is interesting how some get so upset so easily though at a differing opinion.

Opinions are subjective, objective reality isn’t.

People argue with you here when you believe that your (often fallacious) opinion, carries the same weight as demonstrable reality.
Then being that you don’t engage in good faith discourse, it’s a constant revolving text stream that is filled with nonsense, incoherent blustering, trolling, moving goal posts, changing subjects; and almost always without ever acknowledging someone’s correct, and/or refuted point.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Couldn't care less about any validation here or anywhere else. It is interesting how some get so upset so easily though at a differing opinion.

So that’s why you’re in everyone of these threads then? You seem, by far, the most upset.

 

[JGRaider]

Random people on the internet I'll never meet never, ever get me upset I'll assure you. You're in every discussion as well, BTW.

 

[JGRaider]

Opinions are subjective, objective reality isn’t.

People argue with you here when you believe that your (often fallacious) opinion, carries the same weight as demonstrable reality.
Then being that you don’t engage in good faith discourse, it’s a constant revolving text stream that is filled with nonsense, incoherent blustering, trolling, moving goal posts, changing subjects; and almost always without ever acknowledging someone’s correct, and/or refuted point.

My opinions, when proven they work, do not constitute fallacy any more than your methods that work. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it wrong, or "fallacious" in your own words. Your ego won't let you admit it.

 

[Formidilosus]

My opinions, when proven they work, do not constitute fallacy any more than your methods that work. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it wrong, or "fallacious" in your own words. Your ego won't let you admit it.

What are you talking about? What have I stated in this thread that is egotistical or not factual?

 

[HandgunHTR]

I'll take your word for it on the Amax, but it's still very odd to me that people will still clamor for 162 Amax bullets for example, because they work so well. It's hard to imagine such good results from bullets with "melting tips". Why would anyone want any today if they suck so bad?

Because a lot of people are like my uncle who believes that the Nosler Partition is the pinnacle of bullet construction and that Roy Weatherby is the best thing that happened to firearms since John Browning.

He is happy in his ignorance and hasn't had that combination fail him when shooting whitetails, mule deer, black bears, and elk at less than 300 yards.

 

[pathnz]

No, I'm not trolling. It just seems that some have anxiety issues when a guy disagrees with "popular" opinion.

I'll take your word for it on the Amax, but it's still very odd to me that people will still clamor for 162 Amax bullets for example, because they work so well. It's hard to imagine such good results from bullets with "melting tips". Why would anyone want any today if they suck so bad?

The competence and quality of process of most shooters, including those trying to hit things at long range, is so low they could not identify the issue. Particularly going back to when the Amax was available.

 

[JGRaider]

Hard to argue with your uncle regarding the partition. It's been kicking asss for over 60 years.

Because a lot of people are like my uncle who believes that the Nosler Partition is the pinnacle of bullet construction and that Roy Weatherby is the best thing that happened to firearms since John Browning.

He is happy in his ignorance and hasn't had that combination fail him when shooting whitetails, mule deer, black bears, and elk at less than 300 yards.

 

[Bluefish]

Because a lot of people are like my uncle who believes that the Nosler Partition is the pinnacle of bullet construction and that Roy Weatherby is the best thing that happened to firearms since John Browning.

He is happy in his ignorance and hasn't had that combination fail him when shooting whitetails, mule deer, black bears, and elk at less than 300 yards.

My take away on the whole subject is that the old tried and true big gun with a less fragmenting bullet will work and work well enough if that’s all you know. But the concept of using a smaller caliber with heavy for caliber match bullet will give equal performance on the animal, yet have less recoil so you can practice more and have better hit percentages.

As I have got older, I find I really don’t like recoil. I am going to be selling off a 7prc barrel that has less than 10 rounds as it’s not as pleasant to shoot as the 25-06 I built. If the 25-06 can get the job done, why put up with the recoil? Yes the 7 prc has an advantage, but it’s well over 1000 yards out before it really matters. I don’t compete and my skills are not good enough that I would take a shot on an animal that far out.

 

[pilgrim7]

Hard to argue with your uncle regarding the partition. It's been kicking asss for over 60 years.

The argument isn't that it won't work, it's that it's not the pinnacle.

Round balls have been killing for centuries. Shall we argue that they are the pinnacle?

 

[wyosam]

Because a lot of people are like my uncle who believes that the Nosler Partition is the pinnacle of bullet construction and that Roy Weatherby is the best thing that happened to firearms since John Browning.

He is happy in his ignorance and hasn't had that combination fail him when shooting whitetails, mule deer, black bears, and elk at less than 300 yards.

And likely won’t. Lots of ways to skin a cat.


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[JGRaider]

A good case can be made that it is the pinnacle of hunting bullet performance.

 

[pilgrim7]

A good case can be made that it is the pinnacle of hunting bullet performance.

By what metric?. They take more bullet weight and recoil to do the same job an easier shooting round can do.

I only have personal experience with the 180 gn partitions. They worked well, but I have seen better performance out of smaller rounds. I have no reason to lug around a heavier, longer barreled, harder kicking gun when I can shoot smaller bullets that do more damage.

 

[atmat]

By what metric?. They take more bullet weight and recoil to do the same job an easier shooting round can do.

Just a heads-up, lots of us have tried to reason with JGRaider and failed to do so.

 

[JGRaider]

Most big game animals are killed at 300 yds or less. The partition is designed to shed some of it's front core, while the rear core retains weight and penetrates exceptionally well, often exiting. Other bullet makers have been trying to copy the performance since the 1960's for good reason. Reason with that.

 

[grappling_hook]

By what metric?. They take more bullet weight and recoil to do the same job an easier shooting round can do.

I only have personal experience with the 180 gn partitions. They worked well, but I have seen better performance out of smaller rounds. I have no reason to lug around a heavier, longer barreled, harder kicking gun when I can shoot smaller bullets that do more damage.

Can't a Nosler Partition be fired from an easier shooting setup?
I have experience with 130 and 150 grain in 270 (just out to 260 yards on mountain goat and deer), and they were great. But I don't know why the 140 grain wouldn't be great in the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 100 grain in 6mm, etc at conventional hunting ranges.

 

[pilgrim7]

Can't a Nosler Partition be fired from an easier shooting setup?
I have experience with 130 and 150 grain in 270 (just out to 260 yards on mountain goat and deer), and they were great. But I don't know why the 140 grain wouldn't be great in the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 100 grain in 6mm, etc at conventional hunting ranges.

Oh absolutely they could. I'm sure many on here have used them. I just don't think they'll do as well as a bullet that expands more rapidly on the smaller end.

I guess I was kind of arguing 2 points made in the post about 300 WM and partitions. That's the combo I used to use. I never had a problem, but I don't like it as much as I do lighter, smaller set ups.

 

[pilgrim7]

Most big game animals are killed at 300 yds or less. The partition is designed to shed some of it's front core, while the rear core retains weight and penetrates exceptionally well, often exiting. Other bullet makers have been trying to copy the performance since the 1960's for good reason. Reason with that.

Nobody is saying that Nosler Partitions don't work. We're saying they're not the only thing that works. You are tilting at windmills here.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Can't a Nosler Partition be fired from an easier shooting setup?
I have experience with 130 and 150 grain in 270 (just out to 260 yards on mountain goat and deer), and they were great. But I don't know why the 140 grain wouldn't be great in the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 100 grain in 6mm, etc at conventional hunting ranges.

Yes they make them all the way down to the coveted .22 caliber so loved here.


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