Indyal
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2020
- Messages
- 146
"Protect us, o God, from the diphtheria." was the opening line in a book I read about being a doctor in the early 1900s. Diptheria is a respiratory disease caused by a bacteria. You basically suffocated to death. It could cause epidemics.
Does anyone on this forum remember learning about the Iditarod and the "Great Race of Mercy" with Togo (and Balto) to get diphtheria antitoxin to Nome, AK in 1925?
I voted yes and am a physician(internal medicine). I am office based so do not see the covid19 patients in the hospital but see them when ( if) they are discharged home. I have also been diagnosing an increasing number in the office. Until recently, I had nothing to offer patients except advise but now the monoclonal antibody treatments are available.
Here are some thoughts of mine
The deaths from covid 19 range around 1.8%-3.4% total. But a graph of the deaths by age appears logarithmic to me, or at least very curvilinear.
deaths by age range
45-54 yo range 0.5%-0.8%
55-64 yo range 1.4%-2.6%
65-74 yo range 2.7%-4.9%
75-84 yo range 4.3%-10.5%
85 and older 10.4%-27.3%
So hats off to all you young bucks, but as someone who is 64 yo, I have a different perspective on risk.
Regarding the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, there are over 40 in human clinical trials and over 150 were in preclinical trials worldwide. Researchers had a head start on vaccine development due to past experience with SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV vaccine trials. Both of these have the spike protein similar to the SARS-CoV-2.
How a vaccine gets developed
Preclinical trials: done on mice, then primates with specific criteria monitored
Phase I clinical trials: done on healthy human volunteers, usually < 100, with primary objective of safety. Over time, higher doses are given. Volunteers are monitored daily. Halting (no go) rules are in place.
Phase II clinical trials: involve several hundred volunteers with continued attention to safety and the goal immune response.
Phase III clinical trials: determine if the vaccine works to prevent infection. Volunteers either receive the vaccine or a placebo. This can involved > 30,000 volunteers.
For covid 19, Phase I, II, III trials were often combined which sped up development.
Vaccine types
Inactivated whole virus
live attenuated( less pathogenic) virus
recombinant proteins--viral proteins produced in a lab
vector virus- other nonpathogenic viruses are used to introduce the genetic material to stimulate the immune response
DNA -use plasmid DNA
RNA-these are produced completely in vitro
All vaccines in human trials had side effects: fever, chills, headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, joint pains.
I believe the Moderna vaccine lists this at about 10%.
Although the first human trials were started back in March, there has not been enough time with phase III to assess for any long term side effects.
Vaccination of enough individuals will allow for "herd immunity".
Most of the vaccine information above, I adapted from uptodate.com
BTW, our hospital system is offering the vaccine but it is not mandatory.
Regards
Does anyone on this forum remember learning about the Iditarod and the "Great Race of Mercy" with Togo (and Balto) to get diphtheria antitoxin to Nome, AK in 1925?
I voted yes and am a physician(internal medicine). I am office based so do not see the covid19 patients in the hospital but see them when ( if) they are discharged home. I have also been diagnosing an increasing number in the office. Until recently, I had nothing to offer patients except advise but now the monoclonal antibody treatments are available.
Here are some thoughts of mine
The deaths from covid 19 range around 1.8%-3.4% total. But a graph of the deaths by age appears logarithmic to me, or at least very curvilinear.
deaths by age range
45-54 yo range 0.5%-0.8%
55-64 yo range 1.4%-2.6%
65-74 yo range 2.7%-4.9%
75-84 yo range 4.3%-10.5%
85 and older 10.4%-27.3%
So hats off to all you young bucks, but as someone who is 64 yo, I have a different perspective on risk.
Regarding the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, there are over 40 in human clinical trials and over 150 were in preclinical trials worldwide. Researchers had a head start on vaccine development due to past experience with SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV vaccine trials. Both of these have the spike protein similar to the SARS-CoV-2.
How a vaccine gets developed
Preclinical trials: done on mice, then primates with specific criteria monitored
Phase I clinical trials: done on healthy human volunteers, usually < 100, with primary objective of safety. Over time, higher doses are given. Volunteers are monitored daily. Halting (no go) rules are in place.
Phase II clinical trials: involve several hundred volunteers with continued attention to safety and the goal immune response.
Phase III clinical trials: determine if the vaccine works to prevent infection. Volunteers either receive the vaccine or a placebo. This can involved > 30,000 volunteers.
For covid 19, Phase I, II, III trials were often combined which sped up development.
Vaccine types
Inactivated whole virus
live attenuated( less pathogenic) virus
recombinant proteins--viral proteins produced in a lab
vector virus- other nonpathogenic viruses are used to introduce the genetic material to stimulate the immune response
DNA -use plasmid DNA
RNA-these are produced completely in vitro
All vaccines in human trials had side effects: fever, chills, headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, joint pains.
I believe the Moderna vaccine lists this at about 10%.
Although the first human trials were started back in March, there has not been enough time with phase III to assess for any long term side effects.
Vaccination of enough individuals will allow for "herd immunity".
Most of the vaccine information above, I adapted from uptodate.com
BTW, our hospital system is offering the vaccine but it is not mandatory.
Regards
