The resident short game. Long term consequences?

[CorbLand]

You are correct but i dont think that was his point.

I mean he did say that the money he spends at banquets isn’t worth it if he can’t hunt and how that money can be put towards tags…for 850 bucks, you can hunt a lot of states.

Regardless of tag allocation, for 850 OP could hunt one of the following states every year

Idaho
Utah
Colorado

 

[Bighorner]

I still don't know what oppertunity it is people feel they have lost. The random draw for a NR to hunt a Big Horn Sheep in area 5 this year was about 00.3% with the new changes that would go to 00.1%. Maybe if you are ahead of that group you have a legit concern. My oppertunity as a resident for that same tag was 3-4 times better at at just over 1%. So where is the guy who robbed you and which way did he go? Does that 00.2% hurt that bad, did you really think you were in the running? Did you maybe just realize how steep the odds where and now your pissed? I don't know what to tell you. 90/10 is not here for DEA, but based what happened over the 5 I would imagine it would be pretty ugly.

For all the we are the majority and we will get our pound of flesh, your kids wont be able to live in your state once all us rich folks show up for a couple tags, and I'll never support access or the RMEF again. Good on you. Take a stand for what you believe. If it means that much, do it. Put your money into guides, helios and tresspass. They need to eat too. The 90/10 for DEA is still up for discussion and the folks that are involved in the discussion aren't going to look at your side with a lot of sympathy with all the empty threats. You want more of the pie, maybe the solution is to raise prices until enough folks drop out to stop point creep? Sounds like a lot of you are pretty concerned about who you grace your dollars with. Personally think that's the wrong direction, but you all need that bigger slice and that's a pretty direct route to it. The game agencies need your dollars, theres no getting around that.

The fact is hunting is becoming an industry and you are a consumer. You are free to take your business else where, but there is a whole host of people out there wanting to make a buck by getting someone new to by some boots, a rifle and head out west. Maybe some of you fall into that category and you are now realizing you were sold something that wasn't as good as it sounded. I'm obviously wasting my time here to I will continue to show up at my local task force meeting and try to look at things reasonably and sustainably. I will probably even throw in a couple bucks for a cause that dosen't help me.

I wish you all luck.

 

[cacklercrazy]

There are different on opinions on these topics, but one thing is evident, sadly, the ship has sailed for hunting big game the way it used to be. Get used to it because even more change and resistance to non res hunting is coming.

I for one am really happy the non resident hunting regulations changed in Idaho. The same number of opportunities still exist, but now all of the pressure can’t be concentrated in just a few areas. I noticed a DRAMATIC impact last season, finally!!! We didn’t see 30 non resident outfits in every trail head, maybe a bit of exaggeration but just a bit.

I am an Idaho resident, basically retired, and have NEVER drawn a lmited entry deer or elk tag, I’ve been putting in my whole life to have an opportunity. I really don’t care to see any of our limited opportunities go to non residents. I would like to have that chance at least once In my life. i would also like to see my family have the opportunity, I’ve paid my taxes and supported our wildlife and habitat for many, many years, I don’t owe any non residents anything. This is where we live, our home, this IS “our game” it certainly doesn’t equally belong to a non resident, is that what your saying? If it is, then that’s a really dumb statement.

I have seen our hunting areas drastically affected by non resident hunting over the past decade, to the degree that my family as residents have had to completely change our game. Poor predator management, a few bad winters, drought, and the excessive amount of non resident hunters over the past six or seven years, our deer and elk herds are severely depleted, now we have to deal with the population growith and shift as well.

i don’t have any sympathy for the non resident hunters, it is what it is, stay home and focus on the hunting opportunities where you live. Don’t move here, it’s too late for that too.

The short game is to get residents more tags, totally agree, it’s about time. Maybe a rough attitude, but that’s where it is now. Reality.

I will say this im a non resident that hunts with my cousin from Idaho every year in your state. Last year I saw more hunters from Idaho breaking forest laws and regulations than ever. Every one of these where resident hunters. Also some of the least respectful hunters ever. When you come up on a dead-end road and someone else is already out there leave them alone. Don't just park your side by side on the road out in the open and start walking around making noise. Also the side by side wasn't even allowed back there and you got it they were residents again. Resident or not people like this don't deserve to hunt!

 

[Trap]

To me it’s the more you disenfranchise the NR and the less that continue to hunt the less likely the 1% of residents in the west will retain the overall right or pick up the lost funding. In reality wildlife can be managed without hunting as we see by declining populations and additional predation. These orgs that receive funding from many will lose favor to many as their hobbies shift, maybe they’ll move their donations to orgs that press for more utv trails on public as their new activity for annual vacations.

Who knows what the future holds but the long-term outlook as we see more and more groups disenfranchised doesn’t look great. So yes as more and more people stop hunting fewer and fewer will support the right as they won’t care, that doesn’t mean they don’t care about wildlife just means with no interest why step up for it.

The North American model of wildlife model is 100 percent based on wildlife management being funded from hunting. Look at the increase in deer and elk since it’s been implemented in the us. It’s the most successful model of wildlife management ever in any part of the world. 62 billion has been raised by hunting and fishing revenues and 60 percent of game departments nationwide are funded by hunters. No way any wildlife management happens without hunting. Everybody needs to quit trying to hunt the same small handful of western states. We have been sold a bill of goods by the influencers and tag draw services etc. We all jumped in with the promise of special giant bull and mule deer tags and the draw systems are BROKE. We need more hunters we just need less competing for the same limited resources in a small number of states. There are tons of otc opportunities that offer great hunting that you won’t see in Huntn fool magazine or anywhere else because they are otc and they can’t make money on that. There is so much hunting available outside of the few western states everyone is fighting over. Idaho couldn’t sell all their non resident tags after the wolf debacle and before we could manage wolves. The elk had declined enough and the economy sucked and we had a lot of unsold nr tags. so they sold the tags to residents at the non resident price. The residents bought the tags as second tags. If there are ever non resident tags available they all get purchased by residents at the non resident cost. Idaho doesn’t even need to sell tags to non residents to get that revenue from nr tags-residents will buy those tags at the higher price and have. For everyone moving out west for all the resident hunting opportunities that ship is about to sail. Before long I think Idaho will go resident draw. Btw the biggest a holes to non resident hunters are the brand new residents who recently were out of staters this is a fact and they want all the out of staters to know they are residents and you nr hunters need to get out. I notice this most with Washington transplants. Just an interesting observation I thought I would share lol

 

[Trap]

Come on guys it’s about the wildlife! We are supposed to just throw money at it even if we are completely disconnected with said resource.

Here you go, just cause you don’t get to shoot it dosnt mean it’s not important?

Grizzly Bear Foundation

Grizzly Bear Foundation is a registered Canadian charitable organization dedicated solely to the welfare of grizzly bears (Ursus arctos). Guided by science and Indigenous knowledge, we work collaboratively to support the conservation of grizzly bears through research, public education, and advocacy.

grizzlybearfoundation.com

I promise this is my only smart ass response for the day

I don’t mind supporting wildlife I can’t hunt but I want someone to be able to hunt it

 

[Trap]

I will say this im a non resident that hunts with my cousin from Idaho every year in your state. Last year I saw more hunters from Idaho breaking forest laws and regulations than ever. Every one of these where resident hunters. Also some of the least respectful hunters ever. When you come up on a dead-end road and someone else is already out there leave them alone. Don't just park your side by side on the road out in the open and start walking around making noise. Also the side by side wasn't even allowed back there and you got it they were residents again. Resident or not people like this don't deserve to hunt!

Those were obviously out of staters who just moved to Idaho. Even though they have obtained Idaho plates they’re still just out of staters just in disguise

 

[Trap]

I still don't know what oppertunity it is people feel they have lost. The random draw for a NR to hunt a Big Horn Sheep in area 5 this year was about 00.3% with the new changes that would go to 00.1%. If you are concerned about points theres about 1300 people with 22 points or more. It will take a couple decades to chew through that. Maybe if you are ahead of that group you have a legit concern. My oppertunity as a resident for that same tag was 3-4 times better at at just over 1%. So where is the guy who robbed you and which way did he go? Does that 00.2% hurt that bad, did you really think you were in the running? Did you maybe just realize how steep the odds where and now your pissed? I don't know what to tell you. 90/10 is not here for DEA, but based what happened over the 5 I would imagine it would be pretty ugly.

For all the we are the majority and we will get our pound of flesh, your kids wont be able to live in your state once all us rich folks show up for a couple tags, and I'll never support access or the RMEF again. Good on you. Take a stand for what you believe. If it means that much, do it. Put your money into guides, helios and tresspass. They need to eat too. The 90/10 for DEA is still up for discussion and the folks that are involved in the discussion aren't going to look at your side with a lot of sympathy with all the empty threats. You want more of the pie, maybe the solution is to raise prices until enough folks drop out to stop point creep? Sounds like a lot of you are pretty concerned about who you grace your dollars with. Personally think that's the wrong direction, but you all need that bigger slice and that's a pretty direct route to it. The game agencies need your dollars, theres no getting around that.

The fact is hunting is becoming an industry and you are a consumer. You are free to take your business else where, but there is a whole host of people out there wanting to make a buck by getting someone new to by some boots, a rifle and head out west. Maybe some of you fall into that category and you are now realizing you were sold something that wasn't as good as it sounded. I'm obviously wasting my time here to I will continue to show up at my local task force meeting and try to look at things reasonably and sustainably. I will probably even throw in a couple bucks for a cause that dosen't help me.

I wish you all luck.

Wait! My odds for sheep decreased 0.2% overnight? What the heck now I am pissed!! Ha ha. Everyone got sold on trying to hunt the same small number of western states. Now all the draw systems are broke and everyone wants to blame the states or the residents for not “sharing”. Everyone in the draws did it to themselves. I was part of the problem for a little while but I am bowing out for the most part. The sheep tags I understand throwing money away for almost no chance. If you want to hunt sheep it’s one of the few options the rest is just a racket for non residents. Free market you can participate in a broken system or you can find better opportunities elsewhere.

 

[dirtytough]

I am just throwing this out there. If you have the financial ability to drop 850 bucks at a banquet, you can hunt the West every year without a doubt.

I can and I do. This thread isn’t because I can’t get a tag for myself, wife, and kid. It’s about a pie that is getting smaller. And instead of everyone’s piece of pie shrinking by the same percent that the entire pie is shrinking, little miss piggy wants the same size piece or more. And in my opinion the unintended consequences are less support and more hunters moving to the states that are a resident hunting paradise.

What will happen then? Less habitat and more residents competing for the same thing. A smaller non res allocation because there is no way little miss piggy can go on a diet. Rinse and repeat.

I still don't know what oppertunity it is people feel they have lost. The random draw for a NR to hunt a Big Horn Sheep in area 5 this year was about 00.3% with the new changes that would go to 00.1%.

You are focused on 1 event. In 1 state. Every week, month, or year, there are more of these same types of events. It might be in state x this week. Next week it’s in x and y. Because of these events some people will do something else. Some people will do the same thing. And some people will try to become part of the group that is benefiting from these events.

My last post about the actual 90/10 that just happened in Wyoming. I wasn’t old enough to start applying when points started. My dad knew nothing about hunting the west. So he never applied me for anything when I was old enough. I started applying around the west late teens early twenties. I could do 1st grade math and knew it didn’t make sense for me to apply for moose or sheep in Wyoming. So the 90/10 doesn’t really make a difference for me in a negative way. It actually might help me since Wyoming is probably #1 or #2 for a resident hunting paradise.

Wait! My odds for sheep decreased 0.2% overnight? What the heck now I am pissed!! Ha ha

Is that how that math works?

 

[5MilesBack]

My last post about the actual 90/10 that just happened in Wyoming. I wasn’t old enough to start applying when points started.

It's funny......I was born and raised in CO, but WY was as close to a second home as I've had while growing up. As much time as we spent in WY, we were always surprised why my dad never bought a second home there. He wasn't a hunter but was a phenomenal fly fisherman. He made me a fly fisherman, but I was born a hunter. I could barely wait to start big game hunting in CO when I was 15, the legal minimum age back then.

I remember years later when WY started their points game. I could have easily started collecting points there, and Lord knows I could have had access to a lot of private land even. But I never saw the need to apply in WY........why would I? I was always too busy hunting CO every year. To this day, I still have never applied for or even bought a WY hunting license or point. And yet, it seems as though EVERYONE is trying to get those tags now. What am I missing?

 

[BuzzH]

I can and I do. This thread isn’t because I can’t get a tag for myself, wife, and kid. It’s about a pie that is getting smaller. And instead of everyone’s piece of pie shrinking by the same percent that the entire pie is shrinking, little miss piggy wants the same size piece or more. And in my opinion the unintended consequences are less support and more hunters moving to the states that are a resident hunting paradise.

What will happen then? Less habitat and more residents competing for the same thing. A smaller non res allocation because there is no way little miss piggy can go on a diet. Rinse and repeat.



You are focused on 1 event. In 1 state. Every week, month, or year, there are more of these same types of events. It might be in state x this week. Next week it’s in x and y. Because of these events some people will do something else. Some people will do the same thing. And some people will try to become part of the group that is benefiting from these events.

My last post about the actual 90/10 that just happened in Wyoming. I wasn’t old enough to start applying when points started. My dad knew nothing about hunting the west. So he never applied me for anything when I was old enough. I started applying around the west late teens early twenties. I could do 1st grade math and knew it didn’t make sense for me to apply for moose or sheep in Wyoming. So the 90/10 doesn’t really make a difference for me in a negative way. It actually might help me since Wyoming is probably #1 or #2 for a resident hunting paradise.



Is that how that math works?

Tell me how much you do to increase non resident hunting opportunities in the state you live in?

 

[Squincher]

Tell me how much you do to increase non resident hunting opportunities in the state you live in?

Probably not even a drop in a bucket compared to how hard you've worked to limit them in yours.

 

[Squincher]

Any person can enjoy our public lands at any time. Hiking, biking, quads ,snowmobiles, almost anything your heart desires, year round. What tag allocation number do you feel your entitled to?
If you are going to stop donating or participating in conservation organizations because you don't feel like you are getting enough out of it, where is your heart then? It doesn't sound like it's with the animals and their habitat.

So if hunting was banned on federal land, you'd be cool as long as you could still hike, camp, etc? Yeah, right.

 

[BuzzH]

Probably not even a drop in a bucket compared to how hard you've worked to limit them in yours.

Perhaps if residents of states surrounding Wyoming would have worked to give a bit bigger slice of pie to non residents, Wyoming residents wouldn't have been as keen to offer them the same sized slice in return.

 

[displacedtexan]

There won’t be more tags as the quotas are the same. Limited entry tags would just go to residents, not non res.

Changing who gets the tag is the answer, that’s the whole point. The number of tags won’t change.

The success rate probably wouldn’t be affected much because the limited entry tags are great tags and the advantage goes to the hunter In most cases, Late season, early, trophy units etc. I think the success rate would be unchanged for the most part.

Changing who gets the tag will not impact herd size.

Using that to push for more to residents is insane.

 

[tdhanses]

Perhaps if residents of states surrounding Wyoming would have worked to give a bit bigger slice of pie to non residents, Wyoming residents wouldn't have been as keen to offer them the same sized slice in return.

Haha, yes WY should be like CO I agree.

 

[BuzzH]

Haha, yes WY should be like CO I agree.

Colorado residents should have fought for increasing non resident sheep, moose, and goat allocations to 20-25%...yet they didn't.

Haha.

 

[Squincher]

Perhaps if residents of states surrounding Wyoming would have worked to give a bit bigger slice of pie to non residents, Wyoming residents wouldn't have been as keen to offer them the same sized slice in return.

Have to deflect to the "big picture" when your question is turned around on you?

 

[BuzzH]

Tell me how much you do to increase non resident hunting opportunities in the state you live in?

Crickets....

 

[MTMeatHunter]

I admit that I haven’t read through this entire thread, but it seems to me that what we’re arguing about is resident and non-resident opportunity in western states to hunt antlers. I’ll comment on western Montana, as I was born and live in Missoula. Right now, I can buy something like five archery riverbottom whitetail doe tags. I can also buy additional whitey doe over the counter rifle tags in two units about an hours drive from here. I think I could kill something like eight does and put them in the freezer with OTC tags. There are ample opportunities to hunt cow elk as well. Yet I still find myself thinking on non-residents in “my” state “ruining” my hunt “opportunities”. Am I upset about others limiting my opportunities to get out and hunt? Sometimes. But I shouldn’t be. If I focused on just enjoying being outside and putting meat in the freezer… well, there’s a ton of it and I’d be a happier hunter. Are we talking about opportunities to hunt? Or opportunities to kill booners? They’re totally different where I live.

And yeah, you betcha, I’m hanging antlers on my wall yearly too. I’m not holier than thou, but contemplating how I could enjoy hunting more personally.

 

[Moserkr]