Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[Newtosavage]

I appreciate all the helpful responses.

Gotta go watch the 'Boys choke now...

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Time for memes

Please!!

 

[z987k]

I would think so too. I'll keep trying.

Give N550 a shot if you can find any. I don't have much which is why I'm not using it, but I have a load for that with the same 125gr BD-2 bullet 43.6gr gets chronod at 2940fps and according to GRT, is under SAAMI max pressure. That's out of a 22in barrel.

 

[Nosferatu]

"as you want it to..." LOL Where do some of you guys come up with this stuff.

Yes, in fact it is well proven that any particular case will produce higher velocities with a larger bore. Check the load data if you doubt that.

2800 is screaming for a 140 out of a 6.5 while it's routine for a 7mm and pedestrian from a .308 bore.

So while everyone seems to obsess over BC, we rarely hear what is lost in velocity by going to a smaller bore.

Again check the load data rather than put words in my mouth.

I said nothing about BC.

Again, check my words before putting my words in my mouth.

The difference doesn't matter as much as you want it to.

 

[JGRaider]

Extra velocity with a lower BC is like pulling a parachute after 500 yards.

Why in the world would anybody shoot monos unless you lived in a state that required it?

If you are committed to monos you probably need to be shooting a 28 nosler to keep velocity up enough to be as effective as a 6.5 PRC shooting a 147gr eldm.

Sounds to me like the OP just wants to argue and isn't interested in what seasoned 6.5 shooter have to say. I've killed/culled almost 400 big game animals, and that doesn't include hogs/varmints. In the last 10 years the majority of those were with the 7-08 and 120 BT's, 140 AB's and partitions. In the last 4 years I acquired my first 6.5CM (Tikka T3X), liked it so much I bought a 20" CTR. After 77 whitetails killed with the cartridge, and craploads of hogs, the 6.5 139gr Scenar, 147 ELDM, 130 AB. 120 BT, 129 LRAB are game killing machines. I am especially fond of the accuracy and killing power of the 139 Scenar running 2730 (RL16, RL17, RL26) at the muzzle.

Monos in the 6.5CM wouldn't be my last choice, but wouldn't be very far from it.

 

[Unckebob]

I'm back to playing with a 6.5 CM again. Why, I don't know but I got a great deal on a PR barrel for my Savage so I figured why not. Maybe this time I'll see what all the fuss is about. Being a dedicated 7mm guy, I figured there had to be something about all these 6.5's because I keep hearing so much about them. And now that's all I can find on the shelves both in loaded ammo and in components...

anyway, after spending a few days loading and shooting I guess I just don't get it. 2700 fps. with factory 127 Barnes LRX ammo, and the same with a variety of 129-130 grain hand loads. Looking at the load data, I can't even expect much more than that from the dainty little CM.

So, I start thinking about having this barrel rechambered to 6.5 PRC. When I look up the load data for that cartridge, I'm not impressed by it either. Nor am I all that impressed with the 6.5-284 that is supposed to be such a great "long range" cartridge (although I guess the PRC is supposed to replace it?). So what gives?

I learned a while back that the larger the bore for the case, the faster you can push a bullet from it. So trying to push 140's out of a 6.5 bore at 2800 is darn tough while it is routine out of 7mm's and pedestrian out of .308 bores. Sure, you give up BC (in the case of the .308 at least) but you're also pushing it 200 fps faster from the same case.

All this has me struggling to decide what to do with this Proof Research 6.5 CM barrel. Sure, there is a whole shelf full of factory ammo for it in every store, but it does nothing my 7mm-08's or .284 win's didn't do better as far as I can tell.

I mean, the recoil is a hair less but not enough less to make me reach for it over my 7mm-08 or .308.

What am I missing?

The 6.5's are popular because they can take most game animals in the Continental US at reasonable ranges with very little recoil. The Creedmoor is taking market share from the 243 & 308. It is not taking taking market share from LA or Magnum cartridges.
- The 7-08 and 284 never had the market share to be big players in the short action game.

Do I actually need more velocity from a cartridge if I hunt Whitetails from under 400 yards?
- With a 143G ELD-X, I get 43% heavier bullets than my 243.
- I can shoot it all day without worrying about recoil -> practice -> better accuracy.

 

[Sako300]

Does the 6.5 creedmoor with the lower velocity and higher factory BC match ammo have a smaller margin of explosiveness on animals at shorter ranges then the 6.5 PRC and the same BC match bullets? I get you may get a couple hundred more yards with velocity at longer range and expansion with the PRC? I’m new to the 6.5 crowd. Has there been a substantial amount of animals lost at long distance with the creedmoor and the higher BC match bullets. Aka eldm 140s and eldm 147s. Than the 6.5 PRC with the 200 fps advantage with this particular round?

 

[Unckebob]

Does the 6.5 creedmoor with the lower velocity and higher factory BC match ammo have a smaller margin of explosiveness on animals at shorter ranges then the 6.5 PRC and the same BC match bullets? I get you may get a couple hundred more yards with velocity at longer range and expansion with the PRC? I’m new to the 6.5 crowd. Has there been a substantial amount of animals lost at long distance with the creedmoor and the higher BC match bullets. Aka eldm 140s and eldm 147s. Than the 6.5 PRC with the 200 fps advantage with this particular round?

Most animals are easy to kill if you get the shot in the boiler room. Most 6.5CM are used for deer. We don't need a 7mm R'em Mag to kill a deer.

 

[Forestryguy]

Mono bullets

Does the 6.5 creedmoor with the lower velocity and higher factory BC match ammo have a smaller margin of explosiveness on animals at shorter ranges then the 6.5 PRC and the same BC match bullets? I get you may get a couple hundred more yards with velocity at longer range and expansion with the PRC? I’m new to the 6.5 crowd. Has there been a substantial amount of animals lost at long distance with the creedmoor and the higher BC match bullets. Aka eldm 140s and eldm 147s. Than the 6.5 PRC with the 200 fps advantage with this particular round?

Any high BC bullet is going to have explosive effects at short range, especially match bullets that are hollow point of some design. They are thin jacketed and will rip apart fast. Monos would probably stay together better or shed petals and you still have a solid base to penetrate through.

Everyone is hung up on BC and not looking at bullet construction.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sounds to me like the OP just wants to argue and isn't interested in what seasoned 6.5 shooter have to say. I've killed/culled almost 400 big game animals, and that doesn't include hogs/varmints. In the last 10 years the majority of those were with the 7-08 and 120 BT's, 140 AB's and partitions. In the last 4 years I acquired my first 6.5CM (Tikka T3X), liked it so much I bought a 20" CTR. After 77 whitetails killed with the cartridge, and craploads of hogs, the 6.5 139gr Scenar, 147 ELDM, 130 AB. 120 BT, 129 LRAB are game killing machines. I am especially fond of the accuracy and killing power of the 139 Scenar running 2730 (RL16, RL17, RL26) at the muzzle.

Monos in the 6.5CM wouldn't be my last choice, but wouldn't be very far from it.

You completely missed the question but I’m glad you are enjoying your 6.5.

 

[prm]

What are you missing? Lets rephrase your question, if going from 6.5 CM to 7-08, what benefit would you expect? In my experience comparing 6.5 to .308 or 338s, I think there is a nearly zero chance you’ll notice a difference when hunting. 2700 with 127s is seriously anemic. All my 140s are 2770-2800. 127s are in the 2900s. 6.5 CM, 7-08, or 308. Pick the number you like, they all work.

 

[6.5x284]

My Fieldcraft in 6.5 CM runs the 127 LRX at 2970 in a 21” barrel and my 6.5 SAUM runs the 156 Berger at 3013 in a 22” barrel. At those velocities I love them. Mine have been elk slayers. I’ll never not own a 6.5 SAUM. I’ll probably even rebarrel my Montana in 280 AI to a 6.5-280 AI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WeiserBucks]

I did ask about the 6.5 PRC early on in this thread. If a 6.5 PRC would offer me something my 7mm-08 or .284 won't, I'm all ears.

It'll send a very high BC bullet faster than a 7-08 or 284 will send a moderate BC bullet.

 

[BjornF16]

What am I missing?

You have a slow barrel…accept it or move it along.

I’m getting 2750 fps with 140 ELD-M and the barrel is still speeding up.

Barnes load data for 140 gr bullets match my results; your barrel is marginally better than 6.5 Grendel shooting 120 TTSX

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Mono bullets

Any high BC bullet is going to have explosive effects at short range, especially match bullets that are hollow point of some design. They are thin jacketed and will rip apart fast. Monos would probably stay together better or shed petals and you still have a solid base to penetrate through.

Everyone is hung up on BC and not looking at bullet construction.

You would think so…but we shot two alaskan bull moose this year with 168gr bergers in a 280 AI. One at 50ish yards and one at 100 yards. All complete pass throughs with Jelloed internals. I got a lot of crap for my bullet selection from people on this forum who claimed I needed to shoot bonded or monos. I couldnt have been happier with the results, glad I didnt listen to them.

 

[Sled]

Monos in the 6.5CM wouldn't be my last choice, but wouldn't be very far from it.

I've been putting monos lately in the 6.5cm, specifically the 127lrx. This year we took 2 elk and one moose with it. No tracking necessary for 2 of them. Projectiles recovered all looked great. Kills were quick when shot through the vitals. BC isn't much of a concern since this gun is for hunting at less than 500 yards. If I planned to shoot further it'd be for target practice and I'd pick a higher bc lead projectile. Either that or I'd grab a gun from the safe meant for that distance.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Everyone is hung up on BC and not looking at bullet construction.

Are you sure? because frangible is what I'm looking for in bullet construction. At least at this time.

 

[Shraggs]

Yes, in fact it is well proven that any particular case will produce higher velocities with a larger bore. Check the load data if you doubt that.

Your post ^

I believe is true only if Bullet weight is the same. In the lager bore sectional density is less. So it’s not apples to apples. As someone else mentioned, if your trying to compare speed potential of like bullets of 6.5 vs 7 than the 7 will need to be heavier.

 

[sbaker0029]

Are you looking for something that has more availability?
In today's times, availability is the key word.
Anything 7mm is not going to be as plentiful as the 6.5mm. Manufacturers are going to turn out products where the demand is, currently that's in 6.5.
You said you mostly roll your own, if you're wanting to play around with load development and push a 6.5mm bullet to some limits and keep recoil at that of a .30-'06, I will suggest the 6.5x55 swede. The og 6.5. Factory loads are weak due to that fact that most rifles chamber in the round are milsurp 100yr old Mausers. A modern barrel and action can take the pressures of a maxed out 6.5swede. Take a 143gr bullet over 2900 type stuff.

Like Maverick1 said, "the better question is what are you looking for?"

 

[SwiftShot]

I didn’t start this thread to bash any cartridge. I am being honest when I ask what I’m missing with the 6.5’s - and not just the CM. PRC numbers don’t look any better than 7-08 or .284 Win to me.

I have loved my 7-08 for years it is a great gun sub-moa with good loads. I picked up a smoking deal on a Chr Arms Mesa in 6.5 PRC last year. I do not know if it is the rifle or the caliber but it shoots all (5 shot groups 100 yds) 143 ELDX .76, 142 Nosler ABLR .96, and 127 Barnes .54. Those are amazing numbers and all hand loads but Jesus it is accurate. It is just easy to make accurate. Once again, could be the rifle but Jesus it is easy to shoot well. For clarity, my 300 RUM in the same rifle is shooting 220 ELDX .91