Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[BRTreedogs]

If 6.5's produced the same velocity with the same weight bullet as 7's, then it would really be a no-brainer.

6.5-06?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

You must enjoy being wrong.

You also left out that at the same weight, a larger bore will always be faster than a smaller bore.

Extra velocity with a lower BC is like pulling a parachute after 500 yards.

Why in the world would anybody shoot monos unless you lived in a state that required it?

If you are committed to monos you probably need to be shooting a 28 nosler to keep velocity up enough to be as effective as a 6.5 PRC shooting a 147gr eldm.

 

[Newtosavage]

6.5-06?

I did ask about the 6.5 PRC early on in this thread. If a 6.5 PRC would offer me something my 7mm-08 or .284 won't, I'm all ears.

 

[Kimber7man]

I'm back to playing with a 6.5 CM again. Why, I don't know but I got a great deal on a PR barrel for my Savage so I figured why not. Maybe this time I'll see what all the fuss is about. Being a dedicated 7mm guy, I figured there had to be something about all these 6.5's because I keep hearing so much about them. And now that's all I can find on the shelves both in loaded ammo and in components...

anyway, after spending a few days loading and shooting I guess I just don't get it. 2700 fps. with factory 127 Barnes LRX ammo, and the same with a variety of 129-130 grain hand loads. Looking at the load data, I can't even expect much more than that from the dainty little CM.

So, I start thinking about having this barrel rechambered to 6.5 PRC. When I look up the load data for that cartridge, I'm not impressed by it either. Nor am I all that impressed with the 6.5-284 that is supposed to be such a great "long range" cartridge (although I guess the PRC is supposed to replace it?). So what gives?

I learned a while back that the larger the bore for the case, the faster you can push a bullet from it. So trying to push 140's out of a 6.5 bore at 2800 is darn tough while it is routine out of 7mm's and pedestrian out of .308 bores. Sure, you give up BC (in the case of the .308 at least) but you're also pushing it 200 fps faster from the same case.

All this has me struggling to decide what to do with this Proof Research 6.5 CM barrel. Sure, there is a whole shelf full of factory ammo for it in every store, but it does nothing my 7mm-08's or .284 win's didn't do better as far as I can tell.

I mean, the recoil is a hair less but not enough less to make me reach for it over my 7mm-08 or .308.

What am I missing?

I've read through this entire thread and haven't seen the details on your barrel. What length and twist is it?

Just for fun, I went online and looked at Barnes factory ammo specs.

The factory 6.5 creed ammo with the 127 LRX has a muzzle velocity of 2,850 and the ammo with the 120 TTSX has a muzzle velocity of 2,910 fps. That's a little faster than what you posted so I would have to ask if you have a short barrel?

 

[Newtosavage]

Extra velocity with a lower BC is like pulling a parachute after 500 yards.

Why in the world would anybody shoot monos unless you lived in a state that required it?

If you are committed to monos you probably need to be shooting a 28 nosler to keep velocity up enough to be as effective as a 6.5 PRC shooting a 147gr eldm.

I think we all understand that a lower BC loses velocity more quickly. It's not a challenging concept for most.

As for monos, you may want to ask the forum why they are so popular outside of CA. I'm pretty new to the mono game compared to a lot of folks here who live outside of CA.

I would be curious to learn if someone prefers a 6.5 PRC with monos vs. any 7mm cartridge, and why.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I did ask about the 6.5 PRC early on in this thread. If a 6.5 PRC would offer me something my 7mm-08 or .284 won't, I'm all ears.

Again just great factory ammo.

I'm simply not a 7 guy so knowledge is limited.
Does Hornady offer 7-08 in a high bc bullet that is know to shoot well in most rifle?
And don't go comparing the creed to much larger case capacity cartridges.
What are you comparing the 6.5 prc to?
7 saum is about all I can think.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I think we all understand that a lower BC loses velocity more quickly. It's not a challenging concept for most.

As for monos, you may want to ask the forum why they are so popular outside of CA. I'm pretty new to the mono game compared to a lot of folks here who live outside of CA.

I would be curious to learn if someone prefers a 6.5 PRC with monos vs. any 7mm cartridge, and why.

They aren’t popular outside of Cali…which is why I assumed that is where you live.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've read through this entire thread and haven't seen the details on your barrel. What length and twist is it?

Just for fun, I went online and looked at Barnes factory ammo specs.

The factory 6.5 creed ammo with the 127 LRX has a muzzle velocity of 2,850 and the ammo with the 120 TTSX has a muzzle velocity of 2,910 fps. That's a little faster than what you posted so I would have to ask if you have a short barrel?

Nope. 22" Proof Research that is custom made for Savage's Ultralight rifle. 1:8 twist

2700 fps. is what I got over my chrono, consistently. Meanwhile my .308 and 7mm-08 loads were moving along at their normal velocities so it wasn't the chrono.

If I got 2850 out of those factory Barnes LRX's I would have been pretty happy. Maybe I just have a slow barrel and maybe that's why the last owner sold it? But the published data on 127 LRX's (Hodgdon) only shows one powder (StaBall) that reaches 2850 fps. and most are around 2700, so I wonder how much of the Barnes velocity data is marketing?

 

[Newtosavage]

They aren’t popular outside of Cali…which is why I assumed that is where you live.

They are incredibly popular outside of Cali. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

 

[z987k]

Again just great factory ammo.

I'm simply not a 7 guy so knowledge is limited.
Does Hornady offer 7-08 in a high bc bullet that is know to shoot well in most rifle?
And don't go comparing the creed to much larger case capacity cartridges.
What are you comparing the 6.5 prc to?
7 saum is about all I can think.

Hornady loads the eldx in 7-08. .574G1 vs .625 in the CM.

 

[Newtosavage]

Again just great factory ammo.

I'm simply not a 7 guy so knowledge is limited.
Does Hornady offer 7-08 in a high bc bullet that is know to shoot well in most rifle?
And don't go comparing the creed to much larger case capacity cartridges.
What are you comparing the 6.5 prc to?
7 saum is about all I can think.

Hornady offers the 7mm-08 with a 150 ELD-X in factory ammo. But again, I'm a handloader so I hardly even look at factory ammo anymore.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Hornady loads the eldx in 7-08.

Is it know to work in a wide array of rifle well?
If your 6.5 cm doesn't shoot the factory hornady well you should throw the gun in the trash.

Can that be said for the 7-08 array?

 

[Kimber7man]

Nope. 22" Proof Research that is custom made for Savage's Ultralight rifle. 1:8 twist

2700 fps. is what I got over my chrono, consistently. Meanwhile my .308 and 7mm-08 loads were moving along at their normal velocities so it wasn't the chrono.

If I got 2850 out of those factory Barnes LRX's I would have been pretty happy. Maybe I just have a slow barrel and maybe that's why the last owner sold it? But the published data on 127 LRX's (Hodgdon) only shows one powder (StaBall) that reaches 2850 fps. and most are around 2700, so I wonder how much of the Barnes velocity data is marketing?

10-4, maybe it is just a slow barrel.

Barnes load data hits that number with Staball and Superformance.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/6.5-Creedmoor.pdf

 

[BRTreedogs]

Hornady offers the 7mm-08 with a 150 ELD-X in factory ammo. But again, I'm a handloader so I hardly even look at factory ammo anymore.

Ok but you asked why everyone else likes 6.5
Walk up to the average hunter at the gas station wearing camo.
Ask him if he know what bullet jump is, coal, the list goes on.

 

[z987k]

Is it know to work in a wide array of rifle well?
If your 6.5 cm doesn't shoot the factory hornady well you should throw the gun in the trash.

Can that be said for the 7-08 array?

Not the slightest clue. Just answering a question that was asked.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

What do 147 eldm’s do that 162 eld-x’s don’t? Just less recoil?

That was in response to you complaining about 127lrx and 129/130s. Anyways...slightly less drop/drift with better retained velocity.

 

[fwafwow]

Time for memes

 

[z987k]

Nope. 22" Proof Research that is custom made for Savage's Ultralight rifle. 1:8 twist

2700 fps. is what I got over my chrono, consistently. Meanwhile my .308 and 7mm-08 loads were moving along at their normal velocities so it wasn't the chrono.

If I got 2850 out of those factory Barnes LRX's I would have been pretty happy. Maybe I just have a slow barrel and maybe that's why the last owner sold it? But the published data on 127 LRX's (Hodgdon) only shows one powder (StaBall) that reaches 2850 fps. and most are around 2700, so I wonder how much of the Barnes velocity data is marketing?

I load the 125gr BD-2's in my 6.5cm. Using IMR4064, which really isn't even close to an ideal powder, I just have a ton of it, I'm at 2780fps from an 18in barrel and that's not a hot load at all.
So I'd think you can get a bit more velocity out of those than you are.

 

[Newtosavage]

I thought it was common knowledge that a larger bore allowed for higher velocities with the same bullet weight, or the same velocities with a heavier bullet weight, from a given case. But maybe it isn't?

Below a reasonable threshold of recoil (which will be different for everyone), shooting at typical hunting ranges, the extra velocity will essentially cancel out the higher BC of the smaller diameter bullet.

6.5 CM's will, according to published load data, push 127/130's roughly 2775-2800 fps.
7mm-08's will, again, according to published load data, push 130 class bullets roughly 2900 fps.
And .308's will push the same weight bullet 3k fps.

So, recoil aside, at what range does the 6.5's become relevant? Do we have to shoot - as Form suggests - beyond 500 yards to see an advantage?

 

[Newtosavage]

I load the 125gr BD-2's in my 6.5cm. Using IMR4064, which really isn't even close to an ideal powder, I just have a ton of it, I'm at 2780fps from an 18in barrel and that's not a hot load at all.
So I'd think you can get a bit more velocity out of those than you are.

I would think so too. I'll keep trying.