Why not more attention given to the NAS3 cases and their advantages?

[RME]

The thing is, IME it's awfully hard with long bullets in small cases, to go beyond maybe 105% load density, maybe 106% or 108% in a very few narrow use cases, so at some point if you want more speed/pressure you have to drop back to a faster powder. Any given case stuffed 105% full of H4350 will make more speed than the same case stuffed 105% full of H1000.

10-4. Is there a source for load data specific to these cases?

 

[Chris in TN]

10-4. Is there a source for load data specific to these cases?

The only way I know of is to take careful capacity measurements and work loads up using GRT or Quickload as a guide. Such experimentation isn’t for the faint of heart and I would be really intentional about wearing eye protection. And I’d measure everything twice then cut once, so to speak.

I predict it will be a long time before you see big players in the powder business posting 80kpsi load data, if ever. There’s not much upside to it for them, as the availability of modeling software means that the people who want to play with this particular type of fire can do so without a large company being held responsible when the burns happen.

 

[nm.otter]

I think the point was that with higher pressures, any given level of ballistic performance can be achieved with a smaller case.

The question then becomes, if you want to shoot, say, a 6mm116 at 2900', and you could do it with an 18" barrel with regular cartridge ABC at 62kpsi, or you could use these steel cases to do it with cartridge XYZ, a smaller case crammed full of a faster powder, at 80kpsi - which would be better for barrel life

In addition to reduced throat wear, burning less powder means burning less money.

 

[RME]

The only way I know of is to take careful capacity measurements and work loads up using GRT or Quickload as a guide. Such experimentation isn’t for the faint of heart and I would be really intentional about wearing eye protection. And I’d measure everything twice then cut once, so to speak.

I predict it will be a long time before you see big players in the powder business posting 80kpsi load data, if ever. There’s not much upside to it for them, as the availability of modeling software means that the people who want to play with this particular type of fire can do so without a large company being held responsible when the burns happen.

Agreed. I’ve done quite a bit of wildcatting but most of its well trodden ground in terms of pressure and performance. I could see reckless reloaders getting a little nuts with these. If people load till they see “pressure signs” on these things the actual pressures could be through the roof

 

[AM_Hunter]

10-4. Is there a source for load data specific to these cases?

From what I read other from other people that asked them, they said you can go about 9-10% over Hogdons load data. I just did a ladder test to check for pressure signs and got nothing so far at about 8.9% over.

 

[bnewt3]

I haven't looked into it, are people using significantly faster burning powders? Seems to me that would spike peak pressure which is counterproductive to increasing velocity.

My logic says it must be.


How else do you get similar velocity with 17-24% less barrel and less powder?(comparing 7BC to 7PRC)


Also TBF, I dont know what "significantly" means exactly. 10%? 20%? 40%? ?????

 

[bnewt3]

I predict it will be a long time before you see big players in the powder business posting 80kpsi load data, if ever. There’s not much upside to it for them, as the availability of modeling software means that the people who want to play with this particular type of fire can do so without a large company being held responsible when the burns happen.

Personally, I think the bulk of the potential liability was assumed decades ago when the first official reloading data was published. 60k psi is already nothing to play around with.

People have proven that specific brass cases can handle some ridiculous pressures.

People are perfectly able to(not to be confused with advised to) putting 80k in brass all on their own and have been for decades.

IMO being part of the reloading industry at all is a potentially high liability business by its nature.

 

[Chris in TN]

Personally, I think the bulk of the potential liability was assumed decades ago when the first official reloading data was published. 60k psi is already nothing to play around with.

People have proven that specific brass cases can handle some ridiculous pressures.

People are perfectly able to(not to be confused with advised to) putting 80k in brass all on their own and have been for decades.

IMO being part of the reloading industry at all is a potentially high liability business by its nature.

You could be right. Time will tell.

 

[bnewt3]

You could be right. Time will tell.

You could be right as well. Lawyers didnt run things 50 years ago the way they do today.

 

[bnewt3]

In a 7BC thread someone said "i dont want 80k near my face"

But 65k is just fine?

 

[Mike D Texas]

I’ve played with them. Accuracy issues at those pressures seem likely.

That has not been the case for me with the Sig Fury hybrid cases.

155TMK @ 3077fps in a 20” Tikka.
175 TMK @ 2920+ in a 20” Tikka

 

[bnewt3]

2920 with 175 from a 308 case & 20" is awfully nice

 

[AM_Hunter]

That has not been the case for me with the Sig Fury hybrid cases.

155TMK @ 3077fps in a 20” Tikka.
175 TMK @ 2920+ in a 20” Tikka

View attachment 1050245

Hows was your groups with the NAS3 cases?

 

[TradLife406]

Wonder about necking em down to 22 creed...

 

[AM_Hunter]

Wonder about necking em down to 22 creed...

I'm not sure of the necking down process but these cases are lot harder to work than brass

 

[nm.otter]

Perhaps with carbide tools and some kind of roller system. Probably better to wait until they offer what I want.

 

[RME]

My logic says it must be.


How else do you get similar velocity with 17-24% less barrel and less powder?(comparing 7BC to 7PRC)

It burns less powder than the higher velocity case it's being compared to, not compared to the original parent case. To picture it conceptually, if I have a 308 NAS3 case, the thinner walls increase the case capacity to that of a 308 Ackley Improved. Run that 308 AI to higher pressures and you equal the velocity of a 30-06 with less powder than a 30-06, not with less powder than a standard 308.

 

[streamerfish]

With the advancements in the 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win NAS3 case now pushing factory 6.5 PRC and 30-06 speeds I am surprised there isn’t more demand for additional big game calibers and more companies to load them? What am I missing here, why are they not one of the more popular subjects being talked about?

At some point they may become more popular, as a sub section of people always want more speed.

Personally, I have no use for a case I can't reload, and I don't need anymore speed. Like others have mentioned, If i had wanted more speed, I would have bought something that gave more speed.

I'm also not really obsessed with uber short barrels.

I can the potential benefits at some point down the road maybe....Just not a needle mover for me.

 

[RME]

At some point they may become more popular, as a sub section of people always want more speed.

Personally, I have no use for a case I can't reload, and I don't need anymore speed. Like others have mentioned, If i had wanted more speed, I would have bought something that gave more speed.

I'm also not really obsessed with uber short barrels.

I can the potential benefits at some point down the road maybe....Just not a needle mover for me.

I don't really have any interest in them either but I might be swayed into something on a mini action. If they came out with 6.5 Grendel or maybe 338 ARC brass I'd be tempted.

 

[Touchdown88]

Is there rumors that Shell Shock is going to produce 6 ARC cases?

Introducing NAS3 6mm ARC – A New Era of Performance, Exclusively by BlackArc Munitions | Soldier Systems Daily

BlackArc Munitions is proud to announce that we are the exclusive licensee of the NAS3 6mm ARC program, in partnership with Shell Shock Technologies. This p ...

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