Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[BRTreedogs]

I think the another thing that is lost is you are comparing what I believe would have to be a custom rifle with custom ammo.
To a factory rifle, factory ammo

 

[Newtosavage]

What your missing is BC
7s are coming around and if there is a high bc bullet you like the construction of and you barrel is fast enough.
Or if you don't shoot far, you're not missing anything.
6.5s have a wide selection of high BC bullets. And tons of GOOD factory ammo.

If the average 7-08 with a cup and core bullet
And a 6.5 cm with a high bc bullet come out at the exact same fps.
At 500 the high bc bullet will have more speed and continue to carry it. The gap just keeps getting worse for the average 7

The higher the bc the more efficient the bullet is at flying thru the air. Think sports car vs pickup .

Also if you are gonna buy an average rifle off the self and hope to find ammo that shoots well a 6.5cm has a large advantage.

Oh, I get the BC argument. Studied the tables and load data until I was cross-eyed. I guess it isn't as different as I expected however. 7mm bullets do pretty well in the BC department, and you can push a heavier bullet with the same BC faster from a 7mm bore than a 6.5 mm bore. Of course, there will be a penalty in recoil but to me that doesn't come into play below 20 ft. lbs.

The argument that there is more factory ammo for specifically the 6.5 CM makes sense, and I'll take yours and Form's word for there being more factory rifles that are inherently accurate in 6.5 (although I've not had a problem finding 7's that were plenty accurate).

 

[BRTreedogs]

Oh, I get the BC argument. Studied the tables and load data until I was cross-eyed. I guess it isn't as different as I expected however. 7mm bullets do pretty well in the BC department, and you can push a heavier bullet with the same BC faster from a 7mm bore than a 6.5 mm bore. Of course, there will be a penalty in recoil but to me that doesn't come into play below 20 ft. lbs.

The argument that there is more factory ammo for specifically the 6.5 CM makes sense, and I'll take yours and Form's word for there being more factory rifles that are inherently accurate in 6.5 (although I've not had a problem finding 7's that were plenty accurate).

I believe most factory 7s are not twisted correctly for a modern high bc bullet that is heavy for caliber.
Not saying you can't find a factory 7 and factory ammo that work.

But a 6.5 is more likely to work with the bullet i want.

 

[Newtosavage]

Of those 2, which is gonna be easier on the shooters shoulder. I used to be in your shoes. A friendly shooting competition opened my eyes to the popularity of the 6.5s, mainly creedmoors

Oh, for sure the 6.5 if we're talking shooting competitions. But I'm talking practical hunting situations where I'm not shooting a lot of rounds.

I'm really looking for a reason to keep this 6.5 CM barrel, or even to have it rechambered to 6.5 PRC.

Savage Ultralight takeoffs are rare as hen's teeth and are a proprietary lightweight contour that Proof Research makes only for Savage. I couldn't have a 7mm-08 barrel (or .284 Win) made in this contour so I'm hesitant to leave the bore behind and want more info.

 

[Newtosavage]

I think the another thing that is lost is you are comparing what I believe would have to be a custom rifle with custom ammo.
To a factory rifle, factory ammo

I don't think so. At least, that's not my intent. But I'm a handloader so that's how I view cartridge selection.

I shot some factory Barnes 127 LRX ammo through this barrel yesterday and got a consistent 2700 fps. I was underwelmed. I was hoping for at least 2850.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Oh, for sure the 6.5 if we're talking shooting competitions. But I'm talking practical hunting situations where I'm not shooting a lot of rounds.

I'm really looking for a reason to keep this 6.5 CM barrel, or even to have it rechambered to 6.5 PRC.

Savage Ultralight takeoffs are rare as hen's teeth and are a proprietary lightweight contour that Proof Research makes only for Savage. I couldn't have a 7mm-08 barrel (or .284 Win) made in this contour so I'm hesitant to leave the bore behind and want more info.

Sounds like you’ve made your mind up, and for myself, I probably wouldn’t hunt with one. But I do see why they’re popular.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I just checked the BC's of the 147 ELDM vs. the 162 ELDM. They are .697 vs .670.

That doesn't seem like that much difference to me when, using common load data, they are both traveling about the same speed.

You're not wrong, any two bullets with a similar BC and velocity will have very similar flight characteristics. The heavier bullet at the same speed as the lighter bullet will generate more recoil.

Oh, for sure the 6.5 if we're talking shooting competitions. But I'm talking practical hunting situations where I'm not shooting a lot of rounds.

Everyone will benefit from shooting more, regardless if its a comp rifle or a hunting rifle. Lighter recoiling rifles tend to get shot more.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I don't think so. At least, that's not my intent. But I'm a handloader so that's how I view cartridge selection.

I shot some factory Barnes 127 LRX ammo through this barrel yesterday and got a consistent 2700 fps. I was underwelmed. I was hoping for at least 2850.

I absolutely loath reloading. If I can make it work with factory omg that makes me happy.

And like I said, I'm not happy with a combo that works. I want to shoot berger or hornady high bc heavy for caliber frangible bullets.
And I want it to work in as short a time and as cheaply as possible.
The nuance is lost on me, I want to stack bodies, not mess w a gun.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I do

Two things to my response- 1st, I’m committed to monos and 2nd, I expected the bc’s of 6.5’s to be considerably better than 7’s but they really aren’t that different.

Monos still suck. You must live in california, which explains a lot. At the same weight, a 6.5 will always have a better bc. 140gr 6.5 vs 140gr 7mm etc.

 

[Newtosavage]

Monos still suck. You must live in california, which explains a lot. At the same weight, a 6.5 will always have a better bc. 140gr 6.5 vs 140gr 7mm etc.

You must enjoy being wrong.

You also left out that at the same weight, a larger bore will always be faster than a smaller bore.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sounds like you’ve made your mind up, and for myself, I probably wouldn’t hunt with one. But I do see why they’re popular.

If it sounds like I've made up my mind, then please let me know.

 

[WeiserBucks]

If it sounds like I've made up my mind, then please let me know.

Sounds like you prefer a 7, get one of your choosing and enjoy it.

 

[Newtosavage]

You're not wrong, any two bullets with a similar BC and velocity will have very similar flight characteristics. The heavier bullet at the same speed as the lighter bullet will generate more recoil.

Everyone will benefit from shooting more, regardless if its a comp rifle or a hunting rifle. Lighter recoiling rifles tend to get shot more.

I understand what you're saying. I shoot about 500 rounds/year based on my dwindling primer count. All to shoot fewer than 3-5 times at a critter.

For anything below an '06, recoil is not a factor to me.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sounds like you prefer a 7, get one of your choosing and enjoy it.

That response does not help me answer my question but I appreciate your support.

 

[Newtosavage]

I absolutely loath reloading. If I can make it work with factory omg that makes me happy.

And like I said, I'm not happy with a combo that works. I want to shoot berger or hornady high bc heavy for caliber frangible bullets.
And I want it to work in as short a time and as cheaply as possible.
The nuance is lost on me, I want to stack bodies, not mess w a gun.

I totally respect that approach!

 

[WeiserBucks]

In a nutshell, 6.5 Creed offers great factory ammo, reloading supplies are everywhere and they have low recoil. If that suits your needs then there's no reason to change unless you simply want something different to mess with.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

That response does not help me answer my question but I appreciate your support.

You’ve got nearly 100 replies with several good points on why the 6.5s are popular. If you really get down to it, for the majority of hunters, pick any caliber throw the rest away. Most do nothing noticeably better under say 400 yards, which is much farther than the common hunter should be shooting at game. But that’s not any fun. You prefer 7mms. Myself, I’m with you on the 7mms. They’re probably my favorite as well. One option is boring, having more options makes companies money.

 

[Newtosavage]

You’ve got nearly 100 replies with several good points on why the 6.5s are popular. If you really get down to it, for the majority of hunters, pick any caliber throw the rest away. Most do nothing noticeably better under say 400 yards, which is much farther than the common hunter should be shooting at game. But that’s not any fun. You prefer 7mms. Myself, I’m with you on the 7mms. They’re probably my favorite as well. One option is boring, having more options makes companies money.

I think you missed the fact that I would like to have a reason to like 6.5's more, especially since I have a beautiful CF Proof Research barrel screwed on to one of my Savage receivers at the moment.

You're right. I do like 7's and for good reason. But it seems a lot of folks these days like their 6.5's and I just want to understand better why that is. Guess I don't see a problem with trying to learn more.'

If 6.5's produced the same velocity with the same weight bullet as 7's, then it would really be a no-brainer.

 

[Nosferatu]

If 6.5's produced the same velocity with the same weight bullet as 7's, then it would really be a no-brainer.

This is where you're misguided. Weight doesn't matter, sectional density does.

The heavy 6.5mm and 7mm are pretty damn close.

The difference doesn't matter as much as you want it to.

 

[Newtosavage]

This is where you're misguided. Weight doesn't matter, sectional density does.

The heavy 6.5mm and 7mm are pretty damn close.

It doesn't matter as much as you want it to.

"as you want it to..." LOL Where do some of you guys come up with this stuff.

Yes, in fact it is well proven that any particular case will produce higher velocities with a larger bore. Check the load data if you doubt that.

2800 is screaming for a 140 out of a 6.5 while it's routine for a 7mm and pedestrian from a .308 bore.

So while everyone seems to obsess over BC, we rarely hear what is lost in velocity by going to a smaller bore.

Again check the load data rather than put words in my mouth.