Polis proclaims 3/20 “no meat” day in Colorado

[Ratbeetle]

What to do with brisket leftovers...besides sandwiches of course.







Brisket breakfast burritos...mmmmm

 

[cnelk]

Awesome

Jared Polis, Colorado governor, sees ‘MeatOut Day’ proclamation backfire

Colorado Gov. Jared Polis wanted residents to go a day without eating meat, but instead he spurred a stampede to the steakhouses.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[5MilesBack]

Polis came out with a statement after it backfired on him that said something to the effect of "I just want to congratulate all of those folks that started a grass roots effort in supporting our cattlemen and ranchers in Colorado". Way to try and save face, D-bag.......but we see right through it. SMH

 

[Newtosavage]

Sounds like a self-control problem, not a meat problem.

But agree on health being the issue he's trying to get at. Disagree with the message that meat is bad. Remind me again how cattle are a thread to the climate? I skipped that day in 'Progressive 101'.

The CDC just did come out with a study that said something like 80% of covid hospitalizations were from people who were overweight or obese...turns out heart disease is the real culprit...and if you live a healthy life, you stand a far better chance of not being effected by disease and virus.

If you're not aware of the damage that livestock - predominantly cattle but also sheep and goats - have done to our natural landscapes in this country, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

I love a good steak every now and then, but I eat mostly venison because I don't want to support an industry that literally crushes our natural areas, both public and private. And it's not just the grazing, but all the row-crop ag. that goes into supporting the beef and livestock industries.

Most people today have absolutely no clue what a landscape without livestock on it would even look like because they have never seen one.

 

[Wapiti1]

If you're not aware of the damage that livestock - predominantly cattle but also sheep and goats - have done to our natural landscapes in this country, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

I love a good steak every now and then, but I eat mostly venison because I don't want to support an industry that literally crushes our natural areas, both public and private. And it's not just the grazing, but all the row-crop ag. that goes into supporting the beef and livestock industries.

Most people today have absolutely no clue what a landscape without livestock on it would even look like because they have never seen one.

I have to disagree with this, save the sheep in your comment. Sheep have created issues for their wild cousins and that I think is tragic. That has diddly to do with grazing practices, though and is a sad disease issue.

However, selective grazing by livestock is a formidable tool in wildfire mitigation. No, it is not pretty, but it is very effective. It's been argued by scholars that cattle operations graze less than what bison and elk herds did 200 years ago. That is probably correct given the management concepts in place for acres per cow/calf pair.

There are multitudes of studies on the benefits of livestock grazing and that includes improvement of resources for wildlife. Grazing provides the stimulus for new growth late in the season that otherwise would not happen. In Africa, where grazing isn't used, they burn thousands of acres mid-summer to do the same thing.

Can it harm wildlife? Yes, in drought years it can, but managed grazing isn't haphazard. It takes holding capacity into account and does include drought as a part of the equation.

Jeremy

 

[BuzzH]

I have to disagree with this, save the sheep in your comment. Sheep have created issues for their wild cousins and that I think is tragic. That has diddly to do with grazing practices, though and is a sad disease issue.

However, selective grazing by livestock is a formidable tool in wildfire mitigation. No, it is not pretty, but it is very effective. It's been argued by scholars that cattle operations graze less than what bison and elk herds did 200 years ago. That is probably correct given the management concepts in place for acres per cow/calf pair.

There are multitudes of studies on the benefits of livestock grazing and that includes improvement of resources for wildlife. Grazing provides the stimulus for new growth late in the season that otherwise would not happen. In Africa, where grazing isn't used, they burn thousands of acres mid-summer to do the same thing.

Can it harm wildlife? Yes, in drought years it can, but managed grazing isn't haphazard. It takes holding capacity into account and does include drought as a part of the equation.

Jeremy

In general yes, but lots of differences and impacts from cattle versus bison and elk.

Timing, duration, and intensity of grazing matters and cattle grazing can in theory replicate that. In reality and practice its easier said than done and there are lots of cases where cattle grazing has negative impacts. In particular in Riparian areas, significant negative impacts.

Grazing done right is a great tool and I would argue even necessary and most certainly appropriate use of the land. But, to say that cattle grazing in every case has had no negative impacts, that's just not true.

I've inventoried thousands of miles of riparian areas on private, state, federal, tribal lands and I would say that of those I inventoried 60-70% of those were in some kind of degraded state from livestock.

Uplands, where a majority of the grazing should happen, way less damage and in much better shape, still not perfect, but much better in general.

 

[lif]

I’d like to declare March 31st “No Government Day”. They can all kiss my ass at this point. Don’t Tread On Me!!!!!

 

[Wapiti1]

In general yes, but lots of differences and impacts from cattle versus bison and elk.

Timing, duration, and intensity of grazing matters and cattle grazing can in theory replicate that. In reality and practice its easier said than done and there are lots of cases where cattle grazing has negative impacts. In particular in Riparian areas, significant negative impacts.

Grazing done right is a great tool and I would argue even necessary and most certainly appropriate use of the land. But, to say that cattle grazing in every case has had no negative impacts, that's just not true.

I've inventoried thousands of miles of riparian areas on private, state, federal, tribal lands and I would say that of those I inventoried 60-70% of those were in some kind of degraded state from livestock.

Uplands, where a majority of the grazing should happen, way less damage and in much better shape, still not perfect, but much better in general.

I don't disagree. All things have to be managed, which is why I used that word specifically. The truth is that science isn't exact many times.

That said, what I have seen is short term negatives are outweighed by longer term improvement (outside of erosion issues). The opposite happens as well where elk, in particular, will overgraze their preferred food sources and not turn to alternatives. Then they starve to death almost out of stubbornness.

Couldn't say on bison, the herds aren't at a level where you could compare what once was, but I'd wager a million bison is hard on the grass.

Jeremy

 

[Wapiti1]

I’d like to declare March 31st “No Government Day”. They can all kiss my ass at this point. Don’t Tread On Me!!!!!

Careful, Polis might find kissing your ass agreeable. And, now I'm back in teenage land.

Jeremy

 

[CO Elk Hunter]

I’d like to declare March 31st “No Government Day”. They can all kiss my ass at this point. Don’t Tread On Me!!!!!

Amen!

 

[Newtosavage]

I have to disagree with this, save the sheep in your comment. Sheep have created issues for their wild cousins and that I think is tragic. That has diddly to do with grazing practices, though and is a sad disease issue.

However, selective grazing by livestock is a formidable tool in wildfire mitigation. No, it is not pretty, but it is very effective. It's been argued by scholars that cattle operations graze less than what bison and elk herds did 200 years ago. That is probably correct given the management concepts in place for acres per cow/calf pair.

There are multitudes of studies on the benefits of livestock grazing and that includes improvement of resources for wildlife. Grazing provides the stimulus for new growth late in the season that otherwise would not happen. In Africa, where grazing isn't used, they burn thousands of acres mid-summer to do the same thing.

Can it harm wildlife? Yes, in drought years it can, but managed grazing isn't haphazard. It takes holding capacity into account and does include drought as a part of the equation.

Jeremy

Disagree if you want, but livestock here in Texas have changed the entire landscape from one corner of the state to the other. And if they didn't do it with their mouths, their owners did it by demanding (and getting) a free ride on taxes through the ag tax valuation system that all but forces rural landowners to put a specified number of cattle on their properties whether it be sustainable, appropriate, or not.

You don't know what I do for a living, but I will tell you that I actually USE selective grazing in my work. So yes, you are correct that when used the right way, grass-eaters can do some good. But that is extraordinarily rare, and only when combined with fire or other management tools.

And fire and grazing don't "do the same thing." One led to another for tens of thousands of years, but when you remove either one, you change the ecosystem.

Most of the studies you read that declare the benefits of livestock are funded by livestock-friendly organizations and/or conducted by ag university prof's and students.

Again, I'm not saying it's all evil, but 99.9% of what we see on the landscape right now, is a detriment to our native habitats, not a benefit.

 

[Newtosavage]

I don't disagree. All things have to be managed, which is why I used that word specifically. The truth is that science isn't exact many times.

That said, what I have seen is short term negatives are outweighed by longer term improvement (outside of erosion issues). The opposite happens as well where elk, in particular, will overgraze their preferred food sources and not turn to alternatives. Then they starve to death almost out of stubbornness.

Couldn't say on bison, the herds aren't at a level where you could compare what once was, but I'd wager a million bison is hard on the grass.

Jeremy

A million bison that followed natural fires across the landscape weren't hard on the grass. Remove the fire, and it's a whole different story.

 

[Newtosavage]

By the way, I'd happily take a million bison today. That would be about 1% of the number of cattle in the U.S. right now. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/catl0120.pdf

A typical cow eats over 20 lbs of dry forage a day. That's rougly 8K lbs./year. Multiply that by 93 million (the amount of cows above the 1M number of bison cited above) and you get 744 BILLION pounds of forage being consumed in this country annually by livestock. 744 Billion pounds of stuff that would have gone into creating soil and providing fuel for fires to fertilize that soil. Instead, we use chemicals to treat imported exotic grasses that do nothing for the soil, and we use chemicals to grow grains on land that supports zero wildlife, to feed those cows.

As a hunter, and outdoorsman and lover of nature and wildlife, I'll pass. That's one screwed up system we've managed to create.

And remember, those numbers above are just cows. Nothing about goats or sheep.

 

[PablitoPescador]

By the way, I'd happily take a million bison today. That would be about 1% of the number of cattle in the U.S. right now. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/catl0120.pdf

A typical cow eats over 20 lbs of dry forage a day. That's rougly 8K lbs./year. Multiply that by 93 million (the amount of cows above the 1M number of bison cited above) and you get 744 BILLION pounds of forage being consumed in this country annually by livestock. 744 Billion pounds of stuff that would have gone into creating soil and providing fuel for fires to fertilize that soil. Instead, we use chemicals to treat imported exotic grasses that do nothing for the soil, and we use chemicals to grow grains on land that supports zero wildlife, to feed those cows.

As a hunter, and outdoorsman and lover of nature and wildlife, I'll pass. That's one screwed up system we've managed to create.

And remember, those numbers above are just cows. Nothing about goats or sheep.

Do you have an alternative to our current system? How do you feed millions of people without millions of head of livestock?

 

[Newtosavage]

Do you have an alternative to our current system? How do you feed millions of people without millions of head of livestock?

You do realize that a pretty small % of people worldwide survive on beef, right?

It's a luxury item. We in the states got accustomed to it because 5-6 generations ago, this continent had seemingly "endless" amounts of forage. Well now we're subsidizing our beef habit and it's not sustainable for us or the landscape or the wildlife we claim to love.

I had my 2nd "impossible whopper" last Friday, and it was honestly pretty damn good.

The "meat and potatoes" diet that many middle class white Americans were raised on is a product of our culture, not of our necessity.

 

[PablitoPescador]

You do realize that a pretty small % of people worldwide survive on beef, right?

It's a luxury item. We in the states got accustomed to it because 5-6 generations ago, this continent had seemingly "endless" amounts of forage. Well now we're subsidizing our beef habit and it's not sustainable for us or the landscape or the wildlife we claim to love.

I had my 2nd "impossible whopper" last Friday, and it was honestly pretty damn good.

The "meat and potatoes" diet that many middle class white Americans were raised on is a product of our culture, not of our necessity.

Humans evolved eating mostly meat and have done so for thousands of years. It’s not a product of culture, it’s the ideal food for human beings. Like most of the trash we consume in the US the “impossible burger” is made up of a bunch of food-imitation ingredients that aren’t really food.

It probably gives you a dopamine hit feeling like you’re helping by eating less meat, but the reality is that mono crops like soy, wheat, canola, etc are far worse for the environment than a few million bovine grazing on the landscape

 

[Newtosavage]

Humans evolved eating mostly meat and have done so for thousands of years. It’s not a product of culture, it’s the ideal food for human beings. Like most of the trash we consume in the US the “impossible burger” is made up of a bunch of food-imitation ingredients that aren’t really food.

It probably gives you a dopamine hit feeling like you’re helping by eating less meat, but the reality is that mono crops like soy, wheat, canola, etc are far worse for the environment than a few million bovine grazing on the landscape

Humans around the world eat a lot of fish. And we evolved eating wild game, not feedlot-raised, grain-fed meat full of fat and antibiotics.

I didn't take any cheap shots at anyone. I just stated the facts. If you want to take shots at me, I'm out bro.

As I said, I'll take a million head of bison any day. Even a "few million" grazing livestock. But 94 million? Come on man. That's just stupid.

Every time I drive by a feedlot (where most of our beef comes from) I want to puke. Nasty filthy conditions and smells like hell. I can't believe people would actually want to eat anything that came out of there.

There's a damn good reason I put 3 deer/year in my freezer and give a cooler full of venison to my kids when they come home to visit. Beef might be 'Murican as hell and romantic and all that, but I eat as little as possible. Venison and fish for me thanks.

The trouble with coloring outside the lines is that there is always some rule follower that wants to tell you you're doing it wrong. LOL

 

[cnelk]

The thing is, PoleAss didnt declare a 'Beef out' day.
He declared a Meat Out Day which also includes venison, pork & fish.

Nuthin but a political divisive dig.

 

[Newtosavage]

The thing is, PoleAss didnt declare a 'Beef out' day.
He declared a Meat Out Day which also includes venison, pork & fish.

Nuthin but a political divisive dig.

dig at who? I guess I don't follow.

 

[cnelk]

dig at who? I guess I don't follow.

The political atmosphere is much different in Colorado than in Texas.

You should should follow it.