Petition - OTC for Colorado Residents

[Bubblehide]

I wouldn't want a presidential appointee allocating big game tags. No thanks.

You completely misunderstood. Currently in some areas of National Forest (NF) there is an application system in place to gain access to that portion of the NF. The applicant must specify the dates... My point was that this application process could grow in its use to include many other areas.

I have wanted to hunt such an area for some time. Unfortunately, the odds of me being able to get an application approved and draw the necessary tag during the same timeframe is slim. Again, this application system is something already in place and could be expanded. I doubt any of us want expansion of such a program. But asking for changes often opens unforeseen cans of worms. Any such argument for change should consider potential pitfalls. The fact that overcrowding appears to be the primary reason, only provides ammunition for regulating the number of people that can access such areas at any given time.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

You completely misunderstood. Currently in some areas of National Forest (NF) there is an application system in place to gain access to that portion of the NF.

Unless you're a commercial service provider, Dept of Agrculture lands throughout the West are open to entry and are not subject to time or spatial distribution. The Dept of Agriculture in DC hasn't seen the need for it and for good reason, because there's lots of open space in the West.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

You completely misunderstood. Currently in some areas of National Forest (NF) there is an application system in place to gain access to that portion of the NF. The applicant must specify the dates... My point was that this application process could grow in its use to include many other areas.

But again, I definitely WOULD NOT want a bureaucratic presidential appointee alllocating use days or areas, pertaining to hunting opportunities.

 

[Bubblehide]

Unless you're a commercial service provider, Dept of Agrculture lands throughout the West are open to entry and are not subject to time or spatial distribution. The Dept of Agriculture in DC hasn't seen the need for it and for good reason, because there's lots of open space in the West.

Specifically for day use, you are correct. If overnighting, some areas require the application process.

 

[Bubblehide]

But again, I definitely WOULD NOT want a bureaucratic presidential appointee alllocating use days or areas, pertaining to hunting opportunities.

But again, you misunderstsnd.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Specifically for day use, you are correct. If overnighting, some areas require the application process.

I'm not aware of any lands in the West administered by the US Ag Dept, that require overnight permitting for the purpose of hunting.

 

[Bubblehide]

I'm not aware of any lands in the West administered by the US Ag Dept, that require overnight permitting for the purpose of hunting.

The purpose dose not matter, if you want to access such areas longer than just the day, you must have an approved application, and present it when requested.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

The purpose dose not matter, if you want to access such areas longer than just the day, you must have an approved application, and present it when requested.

Again, I'm not aware of any Dept of Agriculture lands in the West, other than developed campgrounds, that require such permitting. You'll have to list which specific managers and their districts that are currently implementing that policy.

 

[stanginthe11s]

I drove through kremmling last week. It was a traffic jam in and out. Bikes, motorcycles, rv, jeeps. During hunting season you’ll see a few guys at the bar. They’re just parroting what they hear and what helps perpetuate the narrative that we need NR money.

while you were there did you take note of the res/non res ratio? and what businesses did you ask to open their books to you to see how it all plays out?
you're just making assumptions based on what you narrowly see without any understanding of the flow of money and ripple effect.
did you ever get a dollar bill with writing on it and wonder why someone would do that? let me tell you.
the economy worldwide is a symbiotic relationship. yes, you absolutely need NR money just like every other state. we all support each other whether we are there or not, something I buy here pays for something you buy there. the flow of money is crazy, I don't have to stop in kremmling to support a business there.
you are looking at it too directly, and not realizing the full nature of business. not only do you stop getting money from NR hunters, but every state that hunter drives through or every airline they fly now loses that money also. the ripple effect takes its toll on everyone and will in some way make it to you. so while you say you don't need us, let me tell you we need each other because you or I alone cannot support an economy.

 

[Bubblehide]

Again, I'm not aware of any Dept of Agriculture lands in the West, other than developed campgrounds, that require such permitting. You'll have to list which specific managers and their districts that are currently implementing that policy.

Google wilderness permits, you will find plenty.

 

[stanginthe11s]

to look at it another way, if there are 45,000 NR hunters that could potentially be 45,000$ any given business loses every year. what business do you know of can take that hit without consequence?
just in archery, CO will receive 15.2 M for OTC elk licenses. can you cover that? what will have to happen to recoup that loss?

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Google wilderness permits, you will find plenty.

I went directly to US Dept of AG, USNFS site and could not find any such requirement for the purpose of hunting. However, there are five (5) land districts along the Pacific Coast that require overnight permitting for non-consumptive users.

 

[Ucsdryder]

to look at it another way, if there are 45,000 NR hunters that could potentially be 45,000$ any given business loses every year. what business do you know of can take that hit without consequence?
just in archery, CO will receive 15.2 M for OTC elk licenses. can you cover that? what will have to happen to recoup that loss?

Theres so much wrong with this I’ll just hit the low hanging fruit.

1. Nobody is saying get rid of all NR hunters. So 45,000 might be more like 35000-40000 NR potentially spending money, if residents have their way.

2. When I go on an out of state hunt, I’m hunting, not sightseeing. I’ll buy some gas and ice and maybe Wendy’s if I’m desperate, but I’m bringing my food and of course have my gear. There’s a HIGH probability I will spend exactly 0 dollars in these small towns. The plan is to be in the woods, not in town.

3. It might hurt some towns a little, but the point I was making earlier is that these towns get way more business from campers, hikers, off-roaders, bikers, motorcycles, etc all summer. They’re packing hotels, restaurants, local stores selling t shirts, etc. they don’t rely on NR hunters to stay in business.

Of course there’s no way to quantify it, positive or negative, but my initial response was toward the narrative that “some of these small businesses would go out of business with the NR.”

 

[Poser]

Every user group think that local economies are dependent on their particular user group. I’ve had this argument time and time again with ORV users who think these mountain towns will go bankrupt if SxSs are not allowed to drive on roads and highways. SxSs user groups are currently boycotting Silverton CO for banning them on the city streets. Thousands of SxS users signed a petition and refuse to spend money in the town. I’ve heard the statement “the only reason people come to silverton is to ride the (ORV) trails”, completely disregarding the steady stream of motorcycles, hikers, Thru hikers on the CO Trail and Continental Divide, Mtn Bikers, river rafters, anglers, leaf peepers, skiers, hot spring tourists and vacationers. Not to mention the 1,000 people a day who get off the train. Also, the incredible number of Jeeps who are highway legal. The town is literally bursting at the seams with tourism.

I’d venture the only time hunting tourism makes a big splash on it’s on, barring outfitters and game processors, is 3rd rifle because it’s pretty dead in November.

Your perspective from one week a year in the Fall is not an accurate perception of the bigger picture. Imagine, if you will, the idea that you might have 5,000-30,000 tourist-hunters in a mountain town on any given day. That seem implausible? That’s ski season and ski season is long: November through May. You’re talking 15 MILLION visitors to the state just for skiing alone. You think hunting stacks up anywhere close to that?

 

[Bubblehide]

I went directly to US Dept of AG, USNFS site and could not find any such requirement for the purpose of hunting. However, there are five (5) land districts along the Pacific Coast that require overnight permitting for non-consumptive users.

I did not realize you were that bad with google. One example is Mount Whitney (the wilderness area)

 

[___DAN___]

Here an idea.

Why don't we put a petition together to let Native Americans have it all back?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Here an idea.

Why don't we put a petition together to let Native Americans have it all back?

Screw that let’s give it back to the Dinosaurs. Everyone knows the tribes killed off and stole land from the other tribes that were there before them…

 

[RyanT26]

Most of the time you don’t get back conquered land. If I’m giving it back to anybody, let’s give it back to the dinosaurs, to hell with it.

Hear an idea.

Why don't we put a petition together to let Native Americans have it all back?

 

[wapitibob]

Here an idea.

Why don't we put a petition together to let Native Americans have it all back?

They haven’t needed a petition yet and they’re getting closer every day.

 

[RyanT26]

The writing is on the wall. OTC tags are going away sooner than later.
Just please remember this the next time some dumbshit person/organization tells you what we need more hunters. The demand outweighs the supply currently. Adding more people to draw on that resource is not going to improve it in any way, shape or form.