OnX hypocrisy

[WKR]

I see both sides. Yeah, my onx subscription fees are subsidizing this guys ability to have a private hunting area and that sucks. But on the other side, I know for darn sure if I had a pile of money, whether I made that with a hunting company or won it in the lottery, one of the first things I'm doing is buying land. It's hypocritical that he's charging people to hunt and blocking access. But I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if he didn't do it, someone else would and it wouldn't be accessible in his absence. I could be wrong there though...open to admitting that if I missed something.

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The point is that HE did it. And He is saying one thing and "advocating" for one thing but doing the exact opposite. If it was someone else then we would be having this discussion.

 

[541hunter]

Let me try to simplify this for the guys not understanding with an example.

A guy says "Dont landlock lands, and restrict access. Public land should be accessible to everyone"

Same guy who said that goes and leases land that borders landlocked land and restricts access to only paying customers.

I can't help you if you don't understand that. Practice what you preach.

Also the thread is starting to get derailed a bit with the way point theories. The thread is meant to bring up a discussion on the hypocrisy of Eric choosing to keep a landlocked piece of public ground landlocked, even though his articles and videos suggest he vehemently is against said actions.

I see what you are getting at but my point is that I doubt he has the ability in his lease to grant public access. In other words, even if he didn’t have a hunting lease on the private ranches there still wouldn’t be public access therefore he is not the one restricting access. Now if one of the ranches was about to grant a public easement and he paid or somehow interfered in a way to prevent that easement then I’m completely on your side. Till then I see a guy who is pro public access but is using a current situation to improve his business. Is it the best image probably not but I do not think it is as big of deal as it is being made to seem.

 

[WKR]

So he should pay for everyone’s access?

He didn’t change the access. 99% of land owners don’t want the general public on their land because of liability and lack of respect.

What’s the beef again, Jealousy?

Cam Hanes made his money off backcountry public land hunting.

I doubt he’s set foot on public during an otc season for any length of time in a decade. Is he a fraud now too?

Why would anyone be jealous of a hypocrit?

Maybe you are trolling?

the situation is a public figure who advocates against landlocked public lands, is actively contributing to land locking public lands.

Do you like when someone tells you not to do something and that it is wrong, but turns around and does it themselves??

 

[MTtrout]

I’ve used onX for years and really enjoyed their product. I’m not devoted to them but want to understand more about this topic. From what I understand from the OP is that the CEO (founder?) of onX has found a way to lease land locked land for outfitting. Many outfitters already do that. I’m in the camp of being able to access the public lands we ALL own! I’ve been following for years the adjective of TRCP and onX to identify these land locked lands. If I’m not understanding the post please correct me

 

[satchamo]

I understand how people can worry about way points marked. I just think trying to gather any valuable information would be quite the task. My buddy drops way points every time he sees anything. It might be a cool rock, where he say a fish or really anything. We all know game animals move around a lot during the year. My guess would be public hunting land would be so littered with pins you could not gain any advantage. We all know the unit we have a tag for and are limited to the public land in it.

As someone who analyzes data for a living, a rather simple query could filter down to any point labeled as bull or cow and still get a shit ton of data…. Hell the dataset would be so simple it’s almost silly. Overlay that over a map (like onx does) and focus concentrations.

I use onx and this thread makes me uncomfortable for doing so. It’s insider trading….. for hunting.

 

[Dalbec0331]

How does a thread that is years old blow up in the last 10 min??? Idk but this is an interesting topic for sure


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[gabenzeke]

The point is that HE did it. And He is saying one thing and "advocating" for one thing but doing the exact opposite. If it was someone else then we would be having this discussion.

I get it. And I acknowledge it isn't a good look. I guess I just think it's human nature. Everyone wants it to be fair for the little guy until you're not a little guy anymore. Then it's dog eat dog. I want good public access as much as the next guy, but give me a billion dollars and I will probably not be spending as much time or energy thinking about public land anymore.

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[gabenzeke]

How does a thread that is years old blow up in the last 10 min??? Idk but this is an interesting topic for sure


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It's one day old?

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[fngTony]

@WKR we can’t see all the details in your photos so maybe that’s why we’re not completely understanding you. For example this looks landlocked period but maybe you’re referring to the private in between the X and major roadways or is there public roadways that aren’t showing in these photos?

 

[WRO]

Why would anyone be jealous of a hypocrit?

Maybe you are trolling?

the situation is a public figure who advocates against landlocked public lands, is actively contributing to land locking public lands.

Do you like when someone tells you not to do something and that it is wrong, but turns around and does it themselves??

How is he actively contributing to locking public land that weren’t publicly accessible to begin with?

He never told me to do anything soo I’m lost on your anger here.

I like public lands, but I sure a hell won’t let you on the land locked stuff that I lease. Doesn’t make me a hypocrite, just the nature of the business.

The whole post reminds me of the bud light cancer culture..

 

[Dalbec0331]

It's one day old?

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Smh I legit miss read the date. I took it as October 2018. I need to get off the internet for the night


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[Hnthrdr]

This isn’t rocket science the OP is just pointing out blatant hypocrisy. If ONX is this giant public land advocate why not raise funds to purchase easements or chunks of private to “unlock” the public. That would be a great PR campaign to show folks that you practice what you preach. Instead the guy is leasing or buying private to access locked up public for himself. I don’t think anyone would care if your company didn’t make an emphasis on land locked public and how it is “everyones” land.

Heck I don’t think most would care if the CEO owned a big ranch or what not. But when you perpetuate using locked up public and continuing to restrict access to it, it’s easy to find it somewhat hypocritical and ironic

 

[semasko]

As someone who analyzes data for a living, a rather simple query could filter down to any point labeled as bull or cow and still get a shit ton of data…. Hell the dataset would be so simple it’s almost silly. Overlay that over a map (like onx does) and focus concentrations.

I use onx and this thread makes me uncomfortable for doing so. It’s insider trading….. for hunting.

Does everyone using the app use the symbols exactly like they're meant to be used in that way? I sure don't. I put the "tree stand" marker as a waypoint for my stand, a place that would be good to stand, or a 50 year old stand stuck in a tree that looked cool.

Say for instance everyone does use the cow and bull symbols correctly. Is that where they spotted one from a half mile away, where they shot one, or where it looked good on the imagery? I understand that filtering down points might give you a general idea. But I would think the few people with limited access to that data either already know what looks good from being a hunter, or know from working in the hunting industry what areas are generally good.

I'm just one person who has maybe over a thousand waypoints across one state.

 

[Gutshotem]

I for one, find it absolutely hilarious that they are expending resources producing landlocked reports in order to increase public awareness and find collaborative solutions to the problem.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I understand how people can worry about way points marked. I just think trying to gather any valuable information would be quite the task. My buddy drops way points every time he sees anything. It might be a cool rock, where he say a fish or really anything. We all know game animals move around a lot during the year. My guess would be public hunting land would be so littered with pins you could not gain any advantage. We all know the unit we have a tag for and are limited to the public land in it.

This. Exactly this.

 

[semasko]

Also if the owner of my company has 10k acres or whatever of private land next to a landlocked section, I'm just gonna try and hunt there.

 

[canyonhunter47]

Does everyone using the app use the symbols exactly like they're meant to be used in that way? I sure don't. I put the "tree stand" marker as a waypoint for my stand, a place that would be good to stand, or a 50 year old stand stuck in a tree that looked cool.

Say for instance everyone does use the cow and bull symbols correctly. Is that where they spotted one from a half mile away, where they shot one, or where it looked good on the imagery? I understand that filtering down points might give you a general idea. But I would think the few people with limited access to that data either already know what looks good from being a hunter, or know from working in the hunting industry what areas are generally good.

I'm just one person who has maybe over a thousand waypoints across one state.

The data wouldn’t have to be perfect to get a lot of useful information out of it. Even if users aren’t very consistent in their conventions, trends will emerge which could be put together to still come up with something useful.

Our hypothetical nefarious OnX employee looking for Colorado OTC honey holes could grab everyone’s bull waypoints or generic waypoints with bull in the name and look for clusters that show up across users. He could improve his data by narrowing it down by dates around his season and pins where the user was within 1/2 mile of the pin when it was made (to exclude escouting). OnX also lets you attach pictures which could be used to confirm kill sites and the geocoding on those pics to confirm locations. It also wouldn’t be hard to match user information like name, email, etc. against local guides, outfitters, and above all WKRs to further narrow down the best info.

(Note: Not accusing OnX or gohunt or anyone else, just pointing out what is possible from a technical perspective)

 

[jcmupar]

The data wouldn’t have to be perfect to get a lot of useful information out of it. Even if users aren’t very consistent in their conventions, trends will emerge which could be put together to still come up with something useful.

Our hypothetical nefarious OnX employee looking for Colorado OTC honey holes could grab everyone’s bull waypoints or generic waypoints with bull in the name and look for clusters that show up across users. He could improve his data by narrowing it down by dates around his season and pins where the user was within 1/2 mile of the pin when it was made (to exclude escouting). OnX also lets you attach pictures which could be used to confirm kill sites and the geocoding on those pics to confirm locations. It also wouldn’t be hard to match user information like name, email, etc. against local guides, outfitters, and above all WKRs to further narrow down the best info.

(Note: Not accusing OnX or gohunt or anyone else, just pointing out what is possible from a technical perspective)

Perks of the job IMO, more power to said employee if they want to use it to their advantage. They still have to physically get out and get it done and that’s more than half the battle. I am not afraid of one or two nefarious employees showing up to spots. Now if OnX has a slack channel dedicated to “honey hole” mining and sharing throughout the company then that is a different story, but I think that would get nixed pretty quick at the company level.

 

[MallardSX2]

As someone who analyzes data for a living, a rather simple query could filter down to any point labeled as bull or cow and still get a shit ton of data…. Hell the dataset would be so simple it’s almost silly. Overlay that over a map (like onx does) and focus concentrations.

I use onx and this thread makes me uncomfortable for doing so. It’s insider trading….. for hunting.

I agree 100%. Most of these guys don’t understand the ability to filter metadata and how easy it would be to do so. Literally it would take minutes to know so much powerful information.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'm curious, how long would private leased land remain in that lease if it was turned over to public.


I can't imagine the liability of it, pretty certain about no company would provide insurance for it.



Does this make anyone who is a proponent of public lands and access a hypocrite if they also hunt private? Or is it only if you pay to hunt private, or if you are a land owner who doesn't open your land to the public? Especially if you owned the land previous to 1976.


I need to know how much of a hypocrite I am.