OnX hypocrisy

[OXN939]

Another good reminder on the privacy front…all iPhone users should immediately do the following:

Settings > Privacy & Security > Location Services > Camera > Never

I just turned this off recently. I was shocked at how accurate the “geo tag” was on a number of my photos. More importantly I recently learned that the geo tag follows the picture when you send it to others. A buddy recently sent me a picture of his archery bull and I was able to plug in the iPhone coordinates and find him really easily on BaseMap.

I had no idea that I’ve been spot burning myself for all these years.

Good looks. Even better is never posting an original picture, but doing a screenshot instead. Removes the associated metadata from it in almost all cases.

Honestly though, there's enough bad hunters out there that it would be a massive undertaking to weed out all the dumb spots people waypoint to get to the good stuff, which is pretty much already known anyway.

This. Also, the unit from my recent Colorado hunt has 94 waypoints in it, some with icons that have nothing to do with what was actually there, color coded to correspond with meanings I have literally never told anyone... if anyone is out there buying waypoints from them, they should know there is plenty of false information headed your way. But, data aggregation isn't hard these days, and it might be worth thinking about the above practices if you're not already and are interested in keeping your secret spots.

Good OPSEC discussion in this thread!

 

[jmez]

What free site lists private property owners?

 

[Gen273]

You aren't powerless, there are other mapping apps out there.

What about HuntStand?

 

[Tod osier]

This. Also, the unit from my recent Colorado hunt has 94 waypoints in it, some with icons that have nothing to do with what was actually there, color coded to correspond with meanings I have literally never told anyone... if anyone is out there buying waypoints from them, they should know there is plenty of false information headed your way. But, data aggregation isn't hard these days, and it might be worth thinking about the above practices if you're not already and are interested in keeping your secret spots.

Good OPSEC discussion in this thread!

Were they to sell the data I'd think that what they would want to sell was aggregate kill site data, maybe something like wallows for elk and probably basic drainage usage data. Knowing areas where no one goes would be really useful (either to further avoid or to target as potential honey holes). I have to think that someone could write an algorithm to identify potential kill sited based on what happens during and after a kill (packing out multiple trips then leaving the area or breaking down an elk after dark and then packing out, etc...). Makes me really second guess it all.

 

[Customweld]

Were they to sell the data I'd think that what they would want to sell was aggregate kill site data, maybe something like wallows for elk and probably basic drainage usage data. Knowing areas where no one goes would be really useful (either to further avoid or to target as potential honey holes). I have to think that someone could write an algorithm to identify potential kill sited based on what happens during and after a kill (packing out multiple trips then leaving the area or breaking down an elk after dark and then packing out, etc...). Makes me really second guess it all.

It really is quite depressing when you think about it.

 

[WyoKid]

Gaia GPS maps offers cheaper prices, private land, all states, hunting and weather layers and more. You don't get hunting stats, which is fine since I don't want onX collecting information on where I hunt.

 

[WyoKid]

Best alternative app/map system?

Gaia GPS maps

 

[WKR]

What about HuntStand?

Gaia and basemaps are alternatives

 

[cuerro viejo]

Big difference being generically tracked when the tracker has no idea what you are doing vs. giving them a waypoint for "blood trail" or an exhaustive index of wallows in a drainage.

I'm happy to pay for being tracked and gaining the benefit in the use of the tool, but not happy to pay to have my very specific waypoints potentially sold or even viewed.

your phone logs where you spend the most time at night(home), where you spend most time during the day (work), and will give your real time traffic estimates for when your normally leave.

This a tiny sample of whats being collected. Way points are nothing… wait until your insurance is determined by your drive habits logged via your phone…. its already collected. Speed… distance.. etc

Law enforcement “could” literally get a map of your where about for x amount of time

 

[TSAMP]

What free site lists private property owners?

Here in Iowa it's a GIS site called "beacon". Then you select county by drop down menu. It's where I find the most recent land owner data. OnX usually lags by 2 to 3 years updating this.

 

[ODB]

Were they to sell the data I'd think that what they would want to sell was aggregate kill site data, maybe something like wallows for elk and probably basic drainage usage data. Knowing areas where no one goes would be really useful (either to further avoid or to target as potential honey holes). I have to think that someone could write an algorithm to identify potential kill sited based on what happens during and after a kill (packing out multiple trips then leaving the area or breaking down an elk after dark and then packing out, etc...). Makes me really second guess it all.

I think this does happen to an extent. If you read their terms of service they are strong on keeping personal information personal, but also say they do aggregate (which would anonymize the data) for other uses. It’s not “Joe’s hot spot”. It’s “a” hot spot. The latter is fully allowed by their TOS.

I absolutely think they look at our data and use it for their own business or even personal gain.

 

[MountainTracker]

I've been debating posting an OnX thread myself in regards to another issue. We are soon going to be the product.

I work for an entity that OnX approached back earlier in the year about a partnership. A couple coworkers and I spoke up against the "partnership" to our new fancy pants marketing guy. At the time the "deal" was OnX would give our entity a 10% kickback of sales (i assume tied to our promotional code) and free subscriptions for employees. Selling out for such an insignificant source of revenue would be stupid. OnX had MUCH more to gain from it then us.

Fast-forward to the past month. I'm informed we brokered the deal! Our newsletter comes out and sure enough there's our new promo code for our little kickback. I dig for more info and our marketing genius divulged some disturbing info. We agreed to share data to OnX. What data, I do not know. It could just be public land shapefiles (boundaries). It could be location data on the free accounts we are supposed to get. You can bet your ass I won't be using the free account and will encourage my coworkers to do the same. BUT THERE'S MORE!

OnX got some pretty big investments from tech companies. Why? The goal is for the users to be the product. Eventually they plan to sell some form of our data to advertisers. I assume it will be recent location data so users can get personalized ads and such. Taking the Google/Facebook route.

Curious, I googled "OnX investments" and this article popped up from a year ago.

onX Secures $87.4M in Series B Funding | onX Maps

This growth investment will support onX as the company reimagines the outdoor experience and works to protect the landscapes that host recreational pursuits.

www.onxmaps.com

I have to applaud them for turning the mapping app into the empire it is today. Pretty dang impressive. And they stand to grow even bigger if these future plans come to fruition.

Thanks for sharing this. You are correct we are the product, or at least our movements and how that can be used to gain revenue from us.

I can see both sides and how it does look bad but I also question how many guys here wouldn’t go out and buy a big chunk of land if they had the means, even if they were an advocate for open lands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HuntQuietly]

your phone logs where you spend the most time at night(home), where you spend most time during the day (work), and will give your real time traffic estimates for when your normally leave.

This a tiny sample of whats being collected. Way points are nothing… wait until your insurance is determined by your drive habits logged via your phone…. its already collected. Speed… distance.. etc

Law enforcement “could” literally get a map of your where about for x amount of time

Some of you all act like it’s not already being collected, reported and used.

Did you learn nothing from Ed Snowden? The reality is- it’s more advantageous to use it and act like they don’t at this stage. But make no mistake, it IS collected, it IS used, and it has been for many many years.

To think otherwise is a special brand of insanity.

 

[CorbLand]

There is nothing you can get from Onx that you cant get for free with something as simple as google maps. I have NO IDEA why people pay for Onx, laziness i guess? Onx does not have some sort of proprietary magic data just people are lazy and dont want to access so they pay Onx too, then complain about Onx. Modern day people problems.

Google maps provides public/private land ownership, in offline maps? Allows you to add waypoints, track yourself and functions as a GPS on a handheld device that isnt connected to the internet at that given moment? Google maps provides roads, ATV trails, hiking trails, etc?

If you have no idea what benefit people get from OnX or similar apps, you are not thinking very hard.

The average wage in the US is around 30 bucks an hour. OnX regularly provides 20-40% off codes. For less than three hours of work a year, I can have all the features in all 50 states. For less than an hour a year, I can have it for my home state. Purchasing it is not laziness, its efficiency.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Some of you all act like it’s not already being collected, reported and used.

Did you learn nothing from Ed Snowden? The reality is- it’s more advantageous to use it and act like they don’t at this stage. But make no mistake, it IS collected, it IS used, and it has been for many many years.

To think otherwise is a special brand of insanity.

People just don't think out side their bubble of projection.

but yes mountains of data

 

[Jethro]

There is nothing you can get from Onx that you cant get for free with something as simple as google maps. I have NO IDEA why people pay for Onx, laziness i guess? Onx does not have some sort of proprietary magic data just people are lazy and dont want to access so they pay Onx too, then complain about Onx. Modern day people problems.

70$ a year to have somebody compile all that data that I can access to all 50 states in about 10 seconds. Seems smart, not lazy.

 

[Tod osier]

your phone logs where you spend the most time at night(home), where you spend most time during the day (work), and will give your real time traffic estimates for when your normally leave.

This a tiny sample of whats being collected. Way points are nothing… wait until your insurance is determined by your drive habits logged via your phone…. its already collected. Speed… distance.. etc

Law enforcement “could” literally get a map of your where about for x amount of time

I understand all that, and it has virtually no bearing on this thread.

 

[Tod osier]

it IS used, and it has been for many many years.

To think otherwise is a special brand of insanity.

What is the evidence of this?

 

[Billinsd]

People just don't think out side their bubble of projection.

but yes mountains of data

Data Mining Careers pay big money. My daughter is excellent at mathematics, but when I told her about it, she said she doesn’t like computers. Excellent profession for intelligent college graduates. I’m not intelligent and wouldn’t want to sit behind a computer all day working.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I understand all that, and it has virtually no bearing on this thread.

you’re right, it has zero to do with leasing private land. My bad.