Help me with my Wobbly Arrows

[AM_Hunter]

Background: Im shooting a PSE Evo NXT 33 at 70lbs draw weight, 28.5" draw, with 27" Easton Storm 350 spine arrows and 100 grain field tips.

I am very much a beginner when it comes to bows, arrows, and all that jazz so dont critique me too hard. I pulled the bow out to practice this afternoon and noticed some accuracy issues, particularly my arrow spiraling or wobbling in flight some of the times. I just got some nockturnals, as well as 6x new arrows. The nockturnals sat snug in my old arrows but are much looser in the new arrows, dont know if this plays a factor but thought id mention it. I had the bow shop match the new arrows to my old ones, so arrow, length, and spine were all the same though the veins are a little more forward on the new ones and i think the weight is about 28gr heavier (so much for matching them). The nockturnals are also about 16gr heavier than the original nocks. So total weight of new arrow is around 44 grains heavier.

So with the new arrows and nockturnals it shot great at 20, 30, and 40 yards, didnt see any wobble or have any accuracy issues. Once I went to 50 yards I first saw the wobble/spiraling and the group opened up. I recorded it in slow motion and you can see the back of the arrow drop after it releases and the arrow wobbling. Switched back to the old nocks and felt like they shot better but hard to tell as I couldnt notice if it wobbled without the illuminated nock. Also took a shot at 60 with my old arrow with the nockturnal and that seems to fly fine.

Im gonna try to shoot it at paper and see what its doin but wanted to get some insight on what others thought. Is it an issue with the nockturnal being loose or added weight in the back and increased weight overall means it may need a re-tune? I read it could also be caused by bad release or an issue with the drop rest. I plan to go shoot again early next week and if I cant remedy the issue or test my old arrows with the nockturnals to isolate if its specific to the new arrows. May take it to the bow shop to re-tune it the following weekend if I cant figure it out.

Appreciate any insight!

 

[SDHNTR]

It could be caused by any and all of the above. Start by ditching the Nocturnals. Weight on the back of the arrow is rarely beneficial. Then make sure your arrows are properly spined. A .350 spined arrow could be on the softer side depending on what inserts you are using and how much weight you have up front. You are probably fine at 27”, but generally speaking, most modern bows with aggressive cams at 70#+ and 28”+ arrows tend to shoot better with .300 spine. Especially with weight up front. Then, rule out any contact. Use lipstick or foot powder spray on the arrow and see if it’s contacting anywhere. Also make sure you have a relaxed, mostly open, grip. Don’t press your release into your face and use back tension to trigger it, not punch it. Lastly shoot through paper and micro tune the rest for a clean hole.

Then broadhead tune accordingly.

 

[Bamf_Pa]

I would think 350 cut to 27 inches at 70 would be fine unless you’re using a ton of insert weight but I would assume stock inserts in the storms. Which aren’t the straightest arrow to start with if I remember correctly they’re Easton run offs like qc control was slightly out of spec so they slap a storm label instead of which ever model it was going to be maybe epics back in the day. Not saying it’s a bad arrow but they might open up in groups at longer distances. You might a have a lighted nock issue some are just poorly made. Adding weight at the back simply stiffens the spine so that’s a give and take. Videos are hard to see the question is the arrow grouping at 50? Or is it a perceived wobble from your perspective?

 

[ddowning]

I highly dislike most lighted nocks for accuracy. Halo nocks or fire nocks are about the only nocks I consider. Deep dive into nock fit to bowstring serving. That is one of the most important aspects to accuracy and forgiveness that people overlook. That, and nock tuning the arrows for group to get them to all behave the same out of the bow (a lot easier if you take them to someone with a shooting machine that knows how to use it).

Since the nock is the most important part of the equation, a loose fitting nock could definitely cause an issue. Put a plastic bag or piece of dental floss around the nock where it inserts into the shaft to tighten the fit and see if that helps.

Nocturnals are usable, but I would want to have several to test and get the arrows to group. The rest are expensive trash nocks. Firenocks are expensive up front, and the owner has a huge ego for a product that still has a few small issues, but they are the best I have found. You can also swap batteries and use a practice weight to keep from ruining the expensive circuits in practice. Other nocks are throw away when the batteries are dead and you really need to practice/tune the bow with them to keep everything the same as far as tune/sight in goes. Once you have multiple years with the same nock/arrow you can just use the dead ones to practice.

Very few nocks, period, will allow me to shoot consistently under 6" at 100 yards with field points. Firenocks and Beiters have been really the only two I have tried that would do it. This is why I highly dislike lighted nocks. There's not enough info out there on nock fit and a lot of people will shoot a lighted nock at 20 yards a couple shots and they hit with their other nocks and they assume they are fine. If you are only killing game at 30 yards or less, they probably are. As you discovered, around 40 or 50 yards things get further apart and start to show their differences.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

So many potential issues. Ultimately, you're in a condition known as "out of tune." To fix it, you need properly spined arrows, good nock fit, no nock pinch, and no fetching contact. From there, you need to make adjustments to your rest, d loop, and cam shims to achieve perfect arrow flight. This is not necessarily a quick process, especially for a beginner with inconsistent form. The bow shop bible app does a good job explaining the process, other online sources are less reliable but still sometimes give direct info.

Get to work, the season will be here soon.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

First make sure you’re not getting any vane contact. Put a tattletale substance (e.g. lipstick, chalk) on the vanes, shoot a few times, then check for marks on the cables and rest. If you find evidence of vane contact, you may need to adjust rest timing (assuming it’s a drop away), rotate your nocks, or switch to shorter vanes.

Then get your bow tuned shooting properly fitting unlighted nocks. Start with paper tuning to get in the ballpark then bareshaft and/or broadhead tuning to confirm/refine at distance.

Then check your tune with the lighted nocks. Weight difference between nock types should have little to no effect on your tune, but difference in nock fit (nock-to-arrow fit and/or nock-to-string fit) can have a major effect. I’m not a fan of most lighted nocks due to issues I’ve experienced with fit and durability; Firenocks are the only ones I’ve tried that I would actually feel comfortable using. If Nockturnals aren’t shooting well out of your tuned bow, ditch them. If you suspect loose fit in the arrow is the root cause and insist on trying to make them work, you could try the plastic bag “trick”: push the nock through a plastic bag into the arrow and hope the extra bit of material trapped between the nock and shaft adequately fills the gap and tightens the fit.

 

[MallardSX2]

FIRST Put some red lipstick on those veins and make sure your not getting contact.

Hard to see from the angle of the video.

My process:
1. Set up arrow.
2. Turn nock to avoid fletching contact.
3. Adjust center shot.
4. Shoot through paper & tune bow until I get bullet holes.

If you cant tune it out, then I recommend adding 20 grains to the front of the arrow and repeat step 4.

Don't rule out your arrow making contact with your rest either......seen that many times. Guys rotate their fletching to avoid contact with their cables and the fletching hits a fin of their dropaway rest.....

 

[LostArra]

I am very much a beginner when it comes to bows, arrows,

Make sure it's not your form before re-tuning or de-tuning your bow setup.
I would identify a wobbly arrow and only shoot it for maybe 20-25 shots. Is it always wobbly?
If so, replace the lighted nock with unlighted and check accuracy at distance. Maybe a friend can watch for wobble. Some arrows for what ever reason just need to be culled out.

If not always wobbly, it could very well be your bow arm form or other form inconsistency.

As much as we hate to admit it, most accuracy problems for new archers can be attributed to the archer.
Compound archers like to adjust and replace stuff but very few can out shoot a reasonably tuned bow. I sure can't which is why I cannot justify a new bow. Some days I bitch about my bow then my neighbor (better shot) will try my bow and stack arrows in the 10 ring. Wake up call.

 

[Bump79]

First make sure you’re not getting any vane contact. Put a tattletale substance (e.g. lipstick, chalk) on the vanes, shoot a few times, then check for marks on the cables and rest. If you find evidence of vane contact, you may need to adjust rest timing (assuming it’s a drop away), rotate your nocks, or switch to shorter vanes.

Then get your bow tuned shooting properly fitting unlighted nocks. Start with paper tuning to get in the ballpark then bareshaft and/or broadhead tuning to confirm/refine at distance.

Then check your tune with the lighted nocks. Weight difference between nock types should have little to no effect on your tune, but difference in nock fit (nock-to-arrow fit and/or nock-to-string fit) can have a major effect. I’m not a fan of most lighted nocks due to issues I’ve experienced with fit and durability; Firenocks are the only ones I’ve tried that I would actually feel comfortable using. If Nockturnals aren’t shooting well out of your tuned bow, ditch them. If you suspect loose fit in the arrow is the root cause and insist on trying to make them work, you could try the plastic bag “trick”: push the nock through a plastic bag into the arrow and hope the extra bit of material trapped between the nock and shaft adequately fills the gap and tightens the fit.

Of all the things that have helped me out most since I dove deep into archery it has been the following:

1) Eliminating vane contact
2) Good nock fit
3) Eliminating nock pinch
4) Proper to stiff spine
5) Square and no wobbles
6) Having enough vane

Obviously you need a good tune but you really can't get there without these. So much of the other stuff online is a bunch of gobblty goop.

 

[EchoLimaKilo]

Something that I like to do is keep a bareshaft arrow handy when I’m out practicing. I’ll cut off vanes and add electrical tape in their place in order to match the weight of my other arrows. If something seems off usually a couple of shots at 20-30 with a bare shaft will at least give me a starting point to work from and it’s a quick form check to see if I’m being sloppy with my grip.

If the bare shaft is flying dead nuts I’d start looking at vane contact, if it’s tail left/right needs tuning or bad grip, inconsistent flight and your grip needs work. Could definitely be a combo of multiple things but it’s an easy way to check in the field without paper to shoot through, plus in your case you can switch nocks on it and see how it changes flight/tune.

 

[BigSky]

I agree with most of what has been suggested. Also keep in mind that in many instances, maybe even most, when an arrow looks like it is wobbling, it is an optical illusion. Your larger 50-yard group may just be related to the natural difficulty of being more accurate at longer ranges until you become more proficient.

 

[AM_Hunter]

I would think 350 cut to 27 inches at 70 would be fine unless you’re using a ton of insert weight but I would assume stock inserts in the storms. Which aren’t the straightest arrow to start with if I remember correctly they’re Easton run offs like qc control was slightly out of spec so they slap a storm label instead of which ever model it was going to be maybe epics back in the day. Not saying it’s a bad arrow but they might open up in groups at longer distances. You might a have a lighted nock issue some are just poorly made. Adding weight at the back simply stiffens the spine so that’s a give and take. Videos are hard to see the question is the arrow grouping at 50? Or is it a perceived wobble from your perspective?

Yea i wanted to move onto a new arrow but didnt know if Id have time to get it dialed in before the season so decided to stick to the same ones. Theyre alright but i should be shooting better arrows. I was down to just 3 left. The arrow was not grouping great at 50, sometimes id get 1-2 landing and grouping where I released and then the other would land way off, and with the lighted nock I could visibly see the arrow spiraling through the air.

 

[AM_Hunter]

It could be caused by any and all of the above. Start by ditching the Nocturnals. Weight on the back of the arrow is rarely beneficial. Then make sure your arrows are properly spined. A .350 spined arrow could be on the softer side depending on what inserts you are using and how much weight you have up front. You are probably fine at 27”, but generally speaking, most modern bows with aggressive cams at 70#+ and 28”+ arrows tend to shoot better with .300 spine. Especially with weight up front. Then, rule out any contact. Use lipstick or foot powder spray on the arrow and see if it’s contacting anywhere. Also make sure you have a relaxed, mostly open, grip. Don’t press your release into your face and use back tension to trigger it, not punch it. Lastly shoot through paper and micro tune the rest for a clean hole.

Then broadhead tune accordingly.

Im definitely going to re-look at my arrow setup after this season, I should have mentioned Im not new to shooting just new to really looking understanding a lot of the technicals of bow/arrow setups. I will make sure to go over my form but most of the shots I was taking felt good on release and form. I have the stock inserts in the arrows, with a 100gr point.

For the foot powder spray do I spray it on the nock only or whole arrow and just see if its rubbing off on the rest anywhere?

Thanks!

 

[SDHNTR]

Apreay

Im definitely going to re-look at my arrow setup after this season, I should have mentioned Im not new to shooting just new to really looking understanding a lot of the technicals of bow/arrow setups. I will make sure to go over my form but most of the shots I was taking felt good on release and form. I have the stock inserts in the arrows, with a 100gr point.

For the foot powder spray do I spray it on the nock only or whole arrow and just see if its rubbing off on the rest anywhere?

Thanks!

Spray in on the back end of the arrow and especially the vanes. Vane contact is the usual culprit.

 

[AM_Hunter]

I highly dislike most lighted nocks for accuracy. Halo nocks or fire nocks are about the only nocks I consider. Deep dive into nock fit to bowstring serving. That is one of the most important aspects to accuracy and forgiveness that people overlook. That, and nock tuning the arrows for group to get them to all behave the same out of the bow (a lot easier if you take them to someone with a shooting machine that knows how to use it).

Since the nock is the most important part of the equation, a loose fitting nock could definitely cause an issue. Put a plastic bag or piece of dental floss around the nock where it inserts into the shaft to tighten the fit and see if that helps.

Nocturnals are usable, but I would want to have several to test and get the arrows to group. The rest are expensive trash nocks. Firenocks are expensive up front, and the owner has a huge ego for a product that still has a few small issues, but they are the best I have found. You can also swap batteries and use a practice weight to keep from ruining the expensive circuits in practice. Other nocks are throw away when the batteries are dead and you really need to practice/tune the bow with them to keep everything the same as far as tune/sight in goes. Once you have multiple years with the same nock/arrow you can just use the dead ones to practice.

Very few nocks, period, will allow me to shoot consistently under 6" at 100 yards with field points. Firenocks and Beiters have been really the only two I have tried that would do it. This is why I highly dislike lighted nocks. There's not enough info out there on nock fit and a lot of people will shoot a lighted nock at 20 yards a couple shots and they hit with their other nocks and they assume they are fine. If you are only killing game at 30 yards or less, they probably are. As you discovered, around 40 or 50 yards things get further apart and start to show their differences.

I did do the trashbag idea last night and got a much better fit with the nocks, ill test them again next week to if im still having the same issue. Id rather try to salvage using the nocks as they expensive and i like being able to see where I impacted but if they are the root issue ill toss them. I did do a fair bit of research before picking the nockturnals and saw majority good reviews but maybe i just bought into the hype. Appreciate the input!

 

[AM_Hunter]

Apreay

Spray in on the back end of the arrow and especially the vanes. Vane contact is the usual culprit.

Will do, thanks!

 

[AM_Hunter]

So many potential issues. Ultimately, you're in a condition known as "out of tune." To fix it, you need properly spined arrows, good nock fit, no nock pinch, and no fetching contact. From there, you need to make adjustments to your rest, d loop, and cam shims to achieve perfect arrow flight. This is not necessarily a quick process, especially for a beginner with inconsistent form. The bow shop bible app does a good job explaining the process, other online sources are less reliable but still sometimes give direct info.

Get to work, the season will be here soon.

I had the bow tuned before the last time I shot it, back before the new arrows and new nocks. It was grouping well then with my old arrows out to 80 yards. They properly timed the cams, checked the d-loop and the nocks, and checked the drop away rest. Is it possible for it to have become untuned overtime?

 

[AM_Hunter]

First make sure you’re not getting any vane contact. Put a tattletale substance (e.g. lipstick, chalk) on the vanes, shoot a few times, then check for marks on the cables and rest. If you find evidence of vane contact, you may need to adjust rest timing (assuming it’s a drop away), rotate your nocks, or switch to shorter vanes.

Then get your bow tuned shooting properly fitting unlighted nocks. Start with paper tuning to get in the ballpark then bareshaft and/or broadhead tuning to confirm/refine at distance.

Then check your tune with the lighted nocks. Weight difference between nock types should have little to no effect on your tune, but difference in nock fit (nock-to-arrow fit and/or nock-to-string fit) can have a major effect. I’m not a fan of most lighted nocks due to issues I’ve experienced with fit and durability; Firenocks are the only ones I’ve tried that I would actually feel comfortable using. If Nockturnals aren’t shooting well out of your tuned bow, ditch them. If you suspect loose fit in the arrow is the root cause and insist on trying to make them work, you could try the plastic bag “trick”: push the nock through a plastic bag into the arrow and hope the extra bit of material trapped between the nock and shaft adequately fills the gap and tightens the fit.

Ill see if I can shoot it at paper later today. Ill shoot my old arrow, old nock first, then try old arrow + nockturnal, new arrow + standard nock, and then new arrow + nockturnal and see what kind of tears im getting. I did do the trashbag trick last night and the nocks are sitting a lot more snug. Ill try to find something I can use as a tattletale substance. I dont have lipstick or chalk but maybe I can use the powder from my wind indicator?

Thanks!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I had the bow tuned before the last time I shot it, back before the new arrows and new nocks. It was grouping well then with my old arrows out to 80 yards. They properly timed the cams, checked the d-loop and the nocks, and checked the drop away rest. Is it possible for it to have become untuned overtime?

yes, it can come out of tune overtime, especially if you have subpar strings. but more importantly, groups don't actually tell you if it is tuned, unless your group consists of fletched and bareshaft arrows, or field points and broadheads. What they did was get your bow to a baseline point from which it could be tuned, then you changed things by getting new arrows that are not quite the same, and adding in the variable of new nocks.

 

[AM_Hunter]

FIRST Put some red lipstick on those veins and make sure your not getting contact.

Hard to see from the angle of the video.

My process:
1. Set up arrow.
2. Turn nock to avoid fletching contact.
3. Adjust center shot.
4. Shoot through paper & tune bow until I get bullet holes.

If you cant tune it out, then I recommend adding 20 grains to the front of the arrow and repeat step 4.

Don't rule out your arrow making contact with your rest either......seen that many times. Guys rotate their fletching to avoid contact with their cables and the fletching hits a fin of their dropaway rest.....

Making contact with the rest may definitely be a possibility, since its not every time and its not always the same arrow. I had the bow shop set it up so the off colored fletching is pointed straight up but maybe something changed. There is a little tear on the wrap around the rest that maybe the fletching impacts sometimes. Ill try to grab a picture of it later today. Maybe I can tape it down or tear off the wrap all together?