Non resident OTC archery elk is over in Colorado

[well_known_rokslider]

You haven't worn the shoe on the other foot yet apparently. And 1 tidbit of information you just shared doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to the million nr's who invade the west during hunting seasons every year. Try putting the shoe on the other foot for a minute and be objective without the "it's federal land and my tax dollars mean I should be able to hunt" argument

Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.

 

[Jethro]

Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.

I don't want to get in the middle of the WI NM debate. Although I've hunted them both twice. But over 10k NR hunt elk in NM each year.

 

[well_known_rokslider]

I don't want to get in the middle of the WI NM debate. Although I've hunted them both twice. But over 10k NR hunt elk in NM each year.

I'll take a look and see where the discrepancy is coming from. Maybe the selling of EPLUS tags? Which is the choice of the resident?

 

[Hnthrdr]

One proposal that was floated early on was splitting the archery season like the NM model. Would decrease crowding and allow more archery tags to be sold That didn't get any traction, especially from residents, obviously.

I thought it wasn’t an awful idea, my concern was with two shorter seasons I think it may increase pressure, as in guys will hunt the whole season, my experience is lots of guys will hunt the weekend or maybe a few days here or there a shorter season might change it. My dream is still moving muzzy from Sept and replacing 1st rifle with muzzy for elk only and then having 2/3 for elk & deer 4th be MD only but with a muzzleloader…

 

[Jethro]

I'll take a look and see where the discrepancy is coming from. Maybe the selling of EPLUS tags? Which is the choice of the resident?

It’s the eplus. Over 10k bought by NR

 

[Poser]

well, if it's federal lands then every tax paying hunter should have equal opportunity for hunting that land. no different than anything else that is federal property. why should it be different if you live here or there? equal taxation and equal representation. sounds pretty simple to me and what would be the argument otherwise? well, there isn't any.

If you actually considered your on logic that you are attempting to leverage, it would actually be the case that every American, not just hunters, would then have the right to kill game on federal lands. How do you expect that would work out?

Next up, if you did hypothetically permit "taxpaying hunters" (what's the actual definition of that, btw?") to kill animals outside of the context of state management on federal lands, then would there be a federal hunting license? Would each agency such as the BLM and the FS have their own licensees? what about enforcement? Federal game wardens? Would there be tags? if so, if you didn't get one, would you still be denied opportunity as a "taxpaying hunter?"

All of that is a moot point, however, since Congress has ultimate authority over federal lands under the Property Clause and states have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent that Congress has chosen to give them such authority. This authority includes wildlife management.

You are free to access and use federal lands the same as any other person, however, the wildlife is held by a state trust and managed as such.

 

[Trapline]

They are looking to shape up like California by gutting the budgets, introducing wolves, and trying to ban cat hunting. Predator controled widlife model. They just needed to get rid of the hunter revenue which the resident hunters did themselves. Those resident hunters dont even knew the pain that is coming down the pipe for them, poor fools. Welcome to California hell!

 

[BigLou]

They are looking to shape up like California by gutting the budgets, introducing wolves, and trying to ban cat hunting. Predator controled widlife model. They just needed to get rid of the hunter revenue which the resident hunters did themselves. Those resident hunters dont even knew the pain that is coming down the pipe for them, poor fools. Welcome to California hell!

Totally agree with this. Hunters either stick together, or we all get slaughtered.

 

[WY SkunkApe]

Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.

Perception is reality. A smaller volume of hunters in many western states is much more noticeable (perceived) than what many from populated eastern states might think. And the bigger issues that underlies the “volume” (despite the size thereof) is likely the way(s) in which said NR volume conducts itself.

I know this is a CO thread, but I’m glad to see even they are taking steps to ensure quality to a degree.

Between the mass migration to Rocky Mountain states, increased pressures from outdoor rec overall and higher costs, residents are tired of the decrease in the quality of experience and increase in competition- this goes beyond just hunting opportunities. We have levers to pull and I think we’re all only starting to see the beginning.

 

[fap1800]

You are free to access and use federal lands the same as any other person, however, the wildlife is held by a state trust and managed as such.

That's the lede right there. My old man makes the same federal land argument all the time. It's like beating a dead horse. If you really think the Feds should manage wildlife, just ask yourself, what do the Feds actually manage well?

 

[Poser]

That's the lede right there. My old man makes the same federal land argument all the time. It's like beating a dead horse. If you really think the Feds should manage wildlife, just ask yourself, what do the Feds actually manage well?

Its an argument that may seem intuitive without knowing or having considered much beyond the surface level thought, but if this were implemented, it would require 2-3 different agencies for wildlife enforcement in each state with state game wardens handling private and state lands and then Forrest Service and BLM officers handling wildlife on each of those respective lands. The same state could have completely different regulations, tag allocations, and bag limits for each and, for draw systems, you would need to apply separately to each agency.

The big rub is since the argument hinges on "taxpayers having the right to hunt on federal land", then any person would have such right: no tags, no hunters safety etc. Its just a really impractical and ill-conceived argument where, either there is a total free-for-all where any person who has the desire can go try and kill an elk in the national forrest (because, you know, taxpayers....), or you completely trade one set of state regulation and enforcement for that of the federal variety in which case, what has been achieved?

 

[fap1800]

Its an argument that may seem intuitive without knowing or having considered much beyond the surface level thought, but if this were implemented, it would require 2-3 different agencies for wildlife enforcement in each state with state game wardens handling private and state lands and then Forrest Service and BLM officers handling wildlife on each of those respective lands. The same state could have completely different regulations, tag allocations, and bag limits for each and, for draw systems, you would need to apply separately to each agency.

The big rub is since the argument hinges on "taxpayers having the right to hunt on federal land", then any person would have such right: no tags, no hunters safety etc. Its just a really impractical and ill-conceived argument where, either there is a total free-for-all where any person who has the desire can go try and kill an elk in the national forrest (because, you know, taxpayers....), or you completely trade one set of state regulation and enforcement for that of the federal variety in which case, what has been achieved?

Yeah, hard no. Even going further, States right now fund the bulk of the wildlife management and not just game species. Biologists would be needed per state at the Fed level. It would be an epic cluster.

 

[bsshaver]

Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


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[Hnthrdr]

Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


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Of course they will let NR draw in those units, they will just have a quota now, and no 0 preference to people who have hunted here a while

 

[bsshaver]

Of course they will let NR draw in those units, they will just have a quota now, and no 0 preference to people who have hunted here a while

10-4. It has gotten crowded. Lat year was ridiculous. People find places with a phone now that it took me decades to find.


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[Poser]

Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


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Its almost guaranteed to be the case that you'll be able to draw any of the OTC units you were hunting with 0 preference points. You'll just need to get in on the application process during the month of May.

 

[cnelk]

Its almost guaranteed to be the case that you'll be able to draw any of the OTC units you were hunting with 0 preference points. You'll just need to get in on the application process during the month of May.

That wasn’t the case when 80/81 went to draw.

 

[camelcluch]

Well add in the use of points for all choices on the app and the game gets interesting. The commissions talked about draw changes a few meeting ago and leaned towards points for any choice.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

There's some chatter about implementing the 75:25 to the 2nd - 4th Choices

As it should be. If the NR Quota is met then those tags are for residents

 

[elknailer]

at the age of 76 the state of colorado has made it clear they dont want my old ass in thier state any more.
its been fun but I'm not playing the preference game again!