Non resident OTC archery elk is over in Colorado

well_known_rokslider

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
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193
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Overthasaddle, Idaho
You haven't worn the shoe on the other foot yet apparently. And 1 tidbit of information you just shared doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to the million nr's who invade the west during hunting seasons every year. Try putting the shoe on the other foot for a minute and be objective without the "it's federal land and my tax dollars mean I should be able to hunt" argument

Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.
 

Jethro

WKR
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Mar 2, 2014
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1,352
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Pennsylvania
Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.
I don't want to get in the middle of the WI NM debate. Although I've hunted them both twice. But over 10k NR hunt elk in NM each year.
 

Hnthrdr

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One proposal that was floated early on was splitting the archery season like the NM model. Would decrease crowding and allow more archery tags to be sold That didn't get any traction, especially from residents, obviously.
I thought it wasn’t an awful idea, my concern was with two shorter seasons I think it may increase pressure, as in guys will hunt the whole season, my experience is lots of guys will hunt the weekend or maybe a few days here or there a shorter season might change it. My dream is still moving muzzy from Sept and replacing 1st rifle with muzzy for elk only and then having 2/3 for elk & deer 4th be MD only but with a muzzleloader…
 

Poser

WKR
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Dec 27, 2013
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Durango CO
well, if it's federal lands then every tax paying hunter should have equal opportunity for hunting that land. no different than anything else that is federal property. why should it be different if you live here or there? equal taxation and equal representation. sounds pretty simple to me and what would be the argument otherwise? well, there isn't any.

If you actually considered your on logic that you are attempting to leverage, it would actually be the case that every American, not just hunters, would then have the right to kill game on federal lands. How do you expect that would work out?

Next up, if you did hypothetically permit "taxpaying hunters" (what's the actual definition of that, btw?") to kill animals outside of the context of state management on federal lands, then would there be a federal hunting license? Would each agency such as the BLM and the FS have their own licensees? what about enforcement? Federal game wardens? Would there be tags? if so, if you didn't get one, would you still be denied opportunity as a "taxpaying hunter?"

All of that is a moot point, however, since Congress has ultimate authority over federal lands under the Property Clause and states have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent that Congress has chosen to give them such authority. This authority includes wildlife management.

You are free to access and use federal lands the same as any other person, however, the wildlife is held by a state trust and managed as such.
 

Trapline

FNG
Joined
Jan 28, 2022
Messages
63
They are looking to shape up like California by gutting the budgets, introducing wolves, and trying to ban cat hunting. Predator controled widlife model. They just needed to get rid of the hunter revenue which the resident hunters did themselves. Those resident hunters dont even knew the pain that is coming down the pipe for them, poor fools. Welcome to California hell!
 

BigLou

FNG
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Mar 18, 2022
Messages
90
They are looking to shape up like California by gutting the budgets, introducing wolves, and trying to ban cat hunting. Predator controled widlife model. They just needed to get rid of the hunter revenue which the resident hunters did themselves. Those resident hunters dont even knew the pain that is coming down the pipe for them, poor fools. Welcome to California hell!
Totally agree with this. Hunters either stick together, or we all get slaughtered.
 
Joined
May 15, 2024
Messages
44
Your argument is comically disjointed, but what the heck, I'll play along. New Mexico, which appears to be your current state of residence, sells what, appx 37,000 elk tags? 23,000ish of those going into the public draw. 15% combined of that going to non-residents giving a grand total of about 3,400 non-residents "invading" your state every year to hunt elk?? Sure Colorado OTC was a different story and something had to be done. But here's the tough pill to swallow: even if you're living "in the west", if you're hunting in another state, you're part of those "millions of nr" invaders.

Do you know how many deer tags Wisconsin sells? Nearly 3/4 of a million so forgive me if I find the complaint of less than 4000 nr elk hunters invading your state a bit laughable.
Perception is reality. A smaller volume of hunters in many western states is much more noticeable (perceived) than what many from populated eastern states might think. And the bigger issues that underlies the “volume” (despite the size thereof) is likely the way(s) in which said NR volume conducts itself.

I know this is a CO thread, but I’m glad to see even they are taking steps to ensure quality to a degree.

Between the mass migration to Rocky Mountain states, increased pressures from outdoor rec overall and higher costs, residents are tired of the decrease in the quality of experience and increase in competition- this goes beyond just hunting opportunities. We have levers to pull and I think we’re all only starting to see the beginning.
 

fap1800

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
295
Location
Bucks County, PA
You are free to access and use federal lands the same as any other person, however, the wildlife is held by a state trust and managed as such.

That's the lede right there. My old man makes the same federal land argument all the time. It's like beating a dead horse. If you really think the Feds should manage wildlife, just ask yourself, what do the Feds actually manage well?
 

Poser

WKR
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Dec 27, 2013
Messages
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Durango CO
That's the lede right there. My old man makes the same federal land argument all the time. It's like beating a dead horse. If you really think the Feds should manage wildlife, just ask yourself, what do the Feds actually manage well?

Its an argument that may seem intuitive without knowing or having considered much beyond the surface level thought, but if this were implemented, it would require 2-3 different agencies for wildlife enforcement in each state with state game wardens handling private and state lands and then Forrest Service and BLM officers handling wildlife on each of those respective lands. The same state could have completely different regulations, tag allocations, and bag limits for each and, for draw systems, you would need to apply separately to each agency.

The big rub is since the argument hinges on "taxpayers having the right to hunt on federal land", then any person would have such right: no tags, no hunters safety etc. Its just a really impractical and ill-conceived argument where, either there is a total free-for-all where any person who has the desire can go try and kill an elk in the national forrest (because, you know, taxpayers....), or you completely trade one set of state regulation and enforcement for that of the federal variety in which case, what has been achieved?
 

fap1800

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
295
Location
Bucks County, PA
Its an argument that may seem intuitive without knowing or having considered much beyond the surface level thought, but if this were implemented, it would require 2-3 different agencies for wildlife enforcement in each state with state game wardens handling private and state lands and then Forrest Service and BLM officers handling wildlife on each of those respective lands. The same state could have completely different regulations, tag allocations, and bag limits for each and, for draw systems, you would need to apply separately to each agency.

The big rub is since the argument hinges on "taxpayers having the right to hunt on federal land", then any person would have such right: no tags, no hunters safety etc. Its just a really impractical and ill-conceived argument where, either there is a total free-for-all where any person who has the desire can go try and kill an elk in the national forrest (because, you know, taxpayers....), or you completely trade one set of state regulation and enforcement for that of the federal variety in which case, what has been achieved?

Yeah, hard no. Even going further, States right now fund the bulk of the wildlife management and not just game species. Biologists would be needed per state at the Fed level. It would be an epic cluster.
 

bsshaver

FNG
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
60
Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Hnthrdr

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The West
Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Of course they will let NR draw in those units, they will just have a quota now, and no 0 preference to people who have hunted here a while
 

bsshaver

FNG
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
60
Of course they will let NR draw in those units, they will just have a quota now, and no 0 preference to people who have hunted here a while

10-4. It has gotten crowded. Lat year was ridiculous. People find places with a phone now that it took me decades to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Poser

WKR
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Durango CO
Non Resident here. I been hunting same OTC unit for 20 years. Are they gonna allow NR draw in the Resident OTC units? And if so do years hunted give preference?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Its almost guaranteed to be the case that you'll be able to draw any of the OTC units you were hunting with 0 preference points. You'll just need to get in on the application process during the month of May.
 

cnelk

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Mar 1, 2012
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Colorado
Its almost guaranteed to be the case that you'll be able to draw any of the OTC units you were hunting with 0 preference points. You'll just need to get in on the application process during the month of May.

That wasn’t the case when 80/81 went to draw.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
2,167
Well add in the use of points for all choices on the app and the game gets interesting. The commissions talked about draw changes a few meeting ago and leaned towards points for any choice.
 
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elknailer

FNG
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
37
Location
saint joseph mi
at the age of 76 the state of colorado has made it clear they dont want my old ass in thier state any more.
its been fun but I'm not playing the preference game again!
 
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