LS Wild Armory: any interest in Semi Custom Tikkas?

[hereinaz]

I would be interested in a take-off 223 with a threaded barrel.

PM me with Tikka .223 factory threaded in the subject and confirm twist. Not sure how many .223 barrels I will have, but I will track for you.

 

[hereinaz]

I have the first couple of donor rifles in hand (many more to come once I get my FFL).

Gonna start with a .22 creed and proof it out to document the process…

 

[hereinaz]

I will have some barrels left after shipping these. Here’s a quick picture of what almost $65,000 in barrels looks like laid out.

 

[4th_point]

I've always wondered why rifles weren't. Are there any negatives to doing this, other than not being able to swap stocks easily?

Chemical bonding, no matter the industry, can complicate inspection after bonding and during the service life.

It would be considered a special process. That is something that is not easily checked.

Sure, a bonded rifle done correctly should pose no issues for most users. However the chemical is the weakest link in the interface and can be thin depending on design.

With a bedded rifle, the bedding can fail. Either infant mortality or over time. And surface area is limited. However, you can pull the barreled action out periodically to inspect - already failed or possible imminent failure.

A properly bedded rifle should not be an issue for most users either, however there's a risk of damage to the bedding with repeated removal. Some manufacturers avoid bedding because of it, not to mention time/cost. I suspect ongoing cost is the main reason.

With a bonded rifle there could be issues, and you wouldn't know it. You could push, pull, drop, etc but that's about it as a consumer.

A special process is OK and there are many in manufacturing. You just want to make sure that the appropriate measures are taken to achieve the intended results.

I have clients across the country, in many industries. When I see a special process, I make sure that the appropriate measures are in place. If not, I make them create a fix. I approve the fix before implementation, and then check the status after implementation.

A recent example is a special process similar to this topic where a two part chemical is used to bed fairly big electrical components. There were gaps in the process that needed to be fixed, which I approved and were implemented. I can't give specifics, obviously, but all of our safety depends on these units being made correctly.

Hunting rifles are generally not mission critical, for life or limb... usually!

Just consider the pros and cons, like everything else.

 

[TX_Diver]

Probably considered already, but my concern would be that at some point Tikka starts producing these calibers with the right twist/lengths/threads already.

Whatever you do I hope the venture is successful though!

 

[hereinaz]

Probably considered already, but my concern would be that at some point Tikka starts producing these calibers with the right twist/lengths/threads already.

Whatever you do I hope the venture is successful though!

Point taken. They might, and we’ll pivot.

Even now the 6.5 Creedmoor threaded Tikka are longer than many want them. They still have to chop and thread.

 

[hereinaz]

Chemical bonding, no matter the industry, can complicate inspection after bonding and during the service life.

It would be considered a special process. That is something that is not easily checked.

Sure, a bonded rifle done correctly should pose no issues for most users. However the chemical is the weakest link in the interface and can be thin depending on design.

With a bedded rifle, the bedding can fail. Either infant mortality or over time. And surface area is limited. However, you can pull the barreled action out periodically to inspect - already failed or possible imminent failure.

A properly bedded rifle should not be an issue for most users either, however there's a risk of damage to the bedding with repeated removal. Some manufacturers avoid bedding because of it, not to mention time/cost. I suspect ongoing cost is the main reason.

With a bonded rifle there could be issues, and you wouldn't know it. You could push, pull, drop, etc but that's about it as a consumer.

A special process is OK and there are many in manufacturing. You just want to make sure that the appropriate measures are taken to achieve the intended results.

I have clients across the country, in many industries. When I see a special process, I make sure that the appropriate measures are in place. If not, I make them create a fix. I approve the fix before implementation, and then check the status after implementation.

A recent example is a special process similar to this topic where a two part chemical is used to bed fairly big electrical components. There were gaps in the process that needed to be fixed, which I approved and were implemented. I can't give specifics, obviously, but all of our safety depends on these units being made correctly.

Hunting rifles are generally not mission critical, for life or limb... usually!

Just consider the pros and cons, like everything else.

Good info. Thanks for taking the time. I like the thoroughness of the process. I hadn’t been that specific. I generally won’t be doing this to rifles for sale, but will my personal rifles.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Probably considered already, but my concern would be that at some point Tikka starts producing these calibers with the right twist/lengths/threads already.

Whatever you do I hope the venture is successful though!

Doubt it. Look at their new offerings. How many people actually run suppressors with a 22” barrel? Manufacturer’s will either never truly get it, or they do and still have to produce products that will appeal to the masses in order to get sales. Then you have to figure in factory ammunition as well, which dictates shorter throats, slower twists etc.

 

[hereinaz]

Doubt it. Look at their new offerings. How many people actually run suppressors with a 22” barrel? Manufacturer’s will either never truly get it, or they do and still have to produce products that will appeal to the masses in order to get sales. Then you have to figure in factory ammunition as well, which dictates shorter throats, slower twists etc.

My thoughts exactly.

I feel safe with 16” and 18” threaded barrels. Some companies do make 16” threaded rifles from the factory.

But, there is always the prefit market for the guys who are shooting out barrels.

I can’t see Tikka adopting the 22 Creedmoor in the next 10, even 20 years when they don’t have the 6 creed yet (though they told me they would release it this year).

 

[TX_Diver]

Point taken. They might, and we’ll pivot.

Even now the 6.5 Creedmoor threaded Tikka are longer than many want them. They still have to chop and thread.

Even if they do history indicates it should be a slow enough adoption that you can stay in front of it. In 5 years maybe they chamber 6cm but you can still sell the 6NSI before they adopt that in 2049.

Good luck, I don’t buy a ton of rifles, but if I’m in the market I’d definitely check out your offerings

 

[solarshooter]

My thoughts exactly.

I feel safe with 16” and 18” threaded barrels. Some companies do make 16” threaded rifles from the factory.

But, there is always the prefit market for the guys who are shooting out barrels.

I can’t see Tikka adopting the 22 Creedmoor in the next 10, even 20 years when they don’t have the 6 creed yet (though they told me they would release it this year).

This. I will be rebarreling Tikkas before buying more, even if they offered one in the exact cartridge and barrel profile/length/thread pitch I want. If someone could stock prefits and eliminate the lead times and cat wrangling with gun smiths and barrel manufacturers, I would gladly take advantage of that. And some of these extra services are interesting and could be very useful/helpful to the right buyer.

 

[hereinaz]

This. I will be rebarreling Tikkas before buying more, even if they offered one in the exact cartridge and barrel profile/length/thread pitch I want. If someone could stock prefits and eliminate the lead times and cat wrangling with gun smiths and barrel manufacturers, I would gladly take advantage of that. And some of these extra services are interesting and could be very useful/helpful to the right buyer.

What’s your next barrel purchase going to be? I always want to get that info… I started with 22 creed and 6 Creed because Tikka doesn’t offer it at all. Have a few .223 as well.

They will be hitting the site pretty soon.

 

[solarshooter]

What’s your next barrel purchase going to be? I always want to get that info… I started with 22 creed and 6 Creed because Tikka doesn’t offer it at all. Have a few .223 as well.

They will be hitting the site pretty soon.

My leading candidates are driven by 2 main constraints - I live in a 6mm minimum state and I have standard bolt faces on my 2 Tikkas. I also already have a 6CM and I find that to be a nearly PERFECT cartridge, all things considered, so I plan to always keep one chambered in 6CM. 18" is my preferred 6CM length because it lets me get the 108s up to 2800ish and a 6mph wind number easily, while still being handy to carry with a suppressor installed.

So then my dilemma shifts to what would be the ideal pairing with a 6CM... I would go 22CM in a heartbeat if I could (and I still might) but I wouldn't be able to hunt with it, and I don't love the idea of pouring money and time into a gun I can't use as a spare hunting gun. I was pretty interested in a 25cal for a while, but I'm no longer convinced the ballistic edge over 6.5mm is worth the reduced bullet selection, since for the same recoil, the two will likely have the same wind number.

This brings me full circle back to another 6mm, and going spicier to meaningfully increase wind number. So 6-284 or 6PRC (with a mag bolt swap) is where I'm leaning, max 20" with the goal of pushing a 108 at ~3200 to hit an 8mph wind number. Nod towards the 6PRC for brass availability, and because I'm not sure the 6-284 has the oomph for that speed in 20".

 

[hereinaz]

My leading candidates are driven by 2 main constraints - I live in a 6mm minimum state and I have standard bolt faces on my 2 Tikkas. I also already have a 6CM and I find that to be a nearly PERFECT cartridge, all things considered, so I plan to always keep one chambered in 6CM. 18" is my preferred 6CM length because it lets me get the 108s up to 2800ish and a 6mph wind number easily, while still being handy to carry with a suppressor installed.

So then my dilemma shifts to what would be the ideal pairing with a 6CM... I would go 22CM in a heartbeat if I could (and I still might) but I wouldn't be able to hunt with it, and I don't love the idea of pouring money and time into a gun I can't use as a spare hunting gun. I was pretty interested in a 25cal for a while, but I'm no longer convinced the ballistic edge over 6.5mm is worth the reduced bullet selection, since for the same recoil, the two will likely have the same wind number.

This brings me full circle back to another 6mm, and going spicier to meaningfully increase wind number. So 6-284 or 6PRC (with a mag bolt swap) is where I'm leaning, max 20" with the goal of pushing a 108 at ~3200 to hit an 8mph wind number. Nod towards the 6PRC for brass availability, and because I'm not sure the 6-284 has the oomph for that speed in 20".

I hear ya!

The 6x284 just doesn’t seem to have the performance over the 6 creed that it seems to on paper.

Being the bolt swap is so easy, I say 6 PRC. I may even put together a program to swap bolts with barrel purchases. Just another niche idea for our Rokslider projects.

 

[Jimbee]

How difficult would it be to offer 6UM prefits?

 

[solarshooter]

I hear ya!

The 6x284 just doesn’t seem to have the performance over the 6 creed that it seems to on paper.

Being the bolt swap is so easy, I say 6 PRC. I may even put together a program to swap bolts with barrel purchases. Just another niche idea for our Rokslider projects.

That would ROCK. Yet another edge you'd offer over the pure DIY effort.

How difficult would it be to offer 6UM prefits?

I like what UM/S2H is doing with the 6UM, but the brass availability is at least as bad as 6.5-284. 6.5PRC is a much safer bet for the long run IMO.

 

[hereinaz]

That would ROCK. Yet another edge you'd offer over the pure DIY effort.


I like what UM/S2H is doing with the 6UM, but the brass availability is at least as bad as 6.5-284. 6.5PRC is a much safer bet for the long run IMO.

Give them time, ADG will get them in production and there will be no issue. I saw these growing pains with Sherman Brass too.

But, the ubiquity of the 6.5 PRC just makes sense for the more timid and conservative. It’s a niche we’ll serve. And, I do think it will be a gateway drug for the 6 UM.

 

[Jimbee]

That would ROCK. Yet another edge you'd offer over the pure DIY effort.


I like what UM/S2H is doing with the 6UM, but the brass availability is at least as bad as 6.5-284. 6.5PRC is a much safer bet for the long run IMO.

Yeah, I get the brass and die availability issue. 6.5 saum brass is currently available however.

 

[hereinaz]

Yeah, I get the brass and die availability issue. 6.5 saum brass is currently available however.

It still scares people, plus the fireforming. And the actual shortages in brass is institutional memory that persists. “What if?”

I fullly 100% bought into the “buy your brass first” mentality years ago. Now I buy components when I buy a barrel for a couple years or the life of it.

I don’t know why, but just saying “6 PRC” seems to help people feel more easy about it. It’s real.

 

[HighUintas]

It still scares people, plus the fireforming. And the actual shortages in brass is institutional memory that persists. “What if?”

I fullly 100% bought into the “buy your brass first” mentality years ago. Now I buy components when I buy a barrel for a couple years or the life of it.

I don’t know why, but just saying “6 PRC” seems to help people feel more easy about it. It’s real.

If someone has fully vetted the chamber reamer, sizing die, and brass dimension issues, there's no large movement of brass in fire forming required where you either need to jam bullet or shoulder when chambering, and if the brass is plentiful then people will jump right in if it's accurate and fast.

Those three items are what keep people from going to a wildcat or semi-wildcat. I think that's why a 6prc would knock it out of the park. All of those items are already taken care of.

My experience with wildcatting was soured because I got boned by 2 different gunsmiths, had a wildcat that required jam fit for fire forming during the COVID primer/powder desert, and all the brass available would create a neck donut necessitating neck turning. I didn't have a trainer at the time, so that was my main gun. Too much work for 50 rounds a week.