LS Wild Armory 6 PRC barrel/rifle project

[hereinaz]

I have had good luck with PBB, but bias is hard. I have it myself for things.

You and I might work something out so a skeptic gets to play with one…

That is why we went off 6.5 PRC. We looked hard at 6x 284 too. Might still buy 5 barrels if we had a few who wanted some.

What vendor for barrels are you thinking? I'm still only half sold on PBB.

Cool cartridge for sure, and on my short list. I love the 284 case and have a standard bolt currently, so I was leaning 6-284, but brass availability is really becoming a problem.

 

[WeiserBucks]

That is why we went off 6.5 PRC. We looked hard at 6x 284 too. Might still buy 5 barrels if we had a few who wanted some.

PRC brass supply is gonna win every time.

 

[hereinaz]

PRC brass supply is gonna win every time.

Brass is always the number one limiting factor on whether you’ll be able to shoot your rifle. I have a 243 wssm I bought for fun cause it was cheap, but can’t find brass…

 

[bowrunner81]

I would be interested in one down the road. I’ve got a couple rifle projects in front of it, but a 6 PRC is next. I’m following.

 

[doverpack12]

So let me ask this, simply to further understand. I’m in full support of this project and had my eye on 6 UM patiently waiting for it to be more plug and play. 6 PRC described appears to do that.

Now the question.
I don’t personally care 108, 109, or 115 DTAC. However, these are Tikkas that easily convert to long action bolt length. Aftermarket mags are available that utilize factory bottom plastic (Hells Canyon, possibly others) or aftermarket bottom metal for factory mag compatibility (pure precision, altitude, High desert, others?) so I follow the free bore experience above and support .18 but it seems justifying to fit short action is pointless? No weight savings and a better functioning mag option with long action.

 

[WeiserBucks]

The only reason to keep it shorter is to fit in everything short action and not just Tikka.

 

[hereinaz]

The only reason to keep it shorter is to fit in everything short action and not just Tikka.

This is a “benefit” but not a primary goal.

The primary purpose is to hit the “Goldilocks” zone for a variety of bullets and the powder charge. This is intended as the best solution for a 6 magnum. I think it doesn’t exist because “6mm is not a hunting round.” I don’t think Hornady will ever make a 25 or 6mm PRC, or if they do it will be a decade or more in the future and it will still get poopooed by the gun writers.

The 6 PRC-NSI is an easy button for a 6 magnum, not the fastest it can be, but just does it and does it well. We get near extreme performance and drop the disadvantages of people complaining about the “drawbacks” of the 6 UM. I think the people who complain or gripe or criticize about the 6 UM don’t get it or what they really want is a 6 creed or a 6 PRC.

Most complaining seems to be fireforming, narrow ecosystem for components, and barrel life. But, you don’t get extremes without some offset costs.

The 6 UM is the perfect 6mm hot rod. That’s Ryan’s consistent refrain, it is the best you can get with 115 DTACS. You really can’t squeeze anything more out of a cartridge going to .223 and the recoil is minimized. Every podcast I hear that’s what Ryan explains when responding to people “poo pooing” on the negatives. I think we may actually buy a reamer and do some prefits.

 

[hereinaz]

The only reason to keep it shorter is to fit in everything short action and not just Tikka.

Meant to add that yes, this does allow it to run in short actions not Tikka. Since we were so close, it only makes sense to make it as broadly compatible as possible.

I have been a Sherman Short Mag guy, which the 6 UM is a variation similar to the way Rich has designed cartridges. The 6 UM 30 is like the SST variety and the 6UM is like the SS variety, both blown out taper of the saum and then different shoulders.

I have been shooting the 7 SS and the 25 SST. I get the complaints about brass availability, etc. but it was just part of the path. Guys ran 7 saum with nearly identical performance and wondered why I would go the effort… just cause.

I also like the REM 700 ecosystem more than most of the “Tikka or die” crowd. I will probably make my personal 6 PRC on a REM 700 clone, but all the testing will be on a Tikka.
I had a choice to just go to the 6 SST or the 6 UM, but they are closed ecosystems. It’s why the 6 PRC became the clear answer.

And, actually it wasn’t until I met @NSI at a Rokslide meet up that I made the final decision. He argued well for the ease of the PRC and got passed my personal bias to the SAUM based cartridges.

Personally. I could have gone either way, but he helped me realize that the 6 PRC has the ecosystem and excellent performance—that’s what counts for a wider appeal.

@huntnful had excellent comments about his experience with the 6 PRC here, and I read almost everything else out there.

 

[Willie IV]

The 6 UM is the perfect 6mm hot rod. That’s Ryan’s consistent refrain, it is the best you can get with 115 DTACS. You really can’t squeeze anything more out of a cartridge going to .223 and the recoil is minimized. Every podcast I hear that’s what Ryan explains when responding to people “poo pooing” on the negatives. I think we may actually buy a reamer and do some prefits.

If you are seriously thinking about doing this would you entertain offering Zermatt actions as an alternative/addition to the Tikka route? I'm just thinking a person like me really likes the idea of the 6UM but it does have a narrow ecosystem (for now). If I were to start with an Zermatt action in a 6 creed I could upgrade to the 6UM at a later date with a new barrel and the interchangeable bolt head of the Zermatt action.

 

[hereinaz]

If you are seriously thinking about doing this would you entertain offering Zermatt actions as an alternative/addition to the Tikka route? I'm just thinking a person like me really likes the idea of the 6UM but it does have a narrow ecosystem (for now). If I were to start with an Zermatt action in a 6 creed I could upgrade to the 6UM at a later date with a new barrel and the interchangeable bolt head of the Zermatt action.

Yes, I would start with Origin/Solus prefits. I like the Solus for the 70 degree bolt throw.

Why don’t you start with a 22 creed, I already have some barrels!!!

 

[Deadspace]

@NSI you and @hereinaz should make a 22NSI while you’re on this path. I’ll donate a barrel to get the project started.

 

[hereinaz]

@NSI you and @hereinaz should make a 22NSI while you’re on this path. I’ll donate a barrel to get the project started.

That’s the snizzlewhip!

Maybe I’ll bite. But it’s gotta be maximized for the heaviest in class like the 6 UM and 115s. I have a big box of 95s.

Why not a smaller case like the 284?
What bullet we going to be shooting? 90+ class
You have any reamer specs on it?
Has anyone else played with it already?
Powders?

 

[Deadspace]

That’s the snizzlewhip!

Maybe I’ll bite. But it’s gotta be maximized for the heaviest in class like the 6 UM and 115s. I have a big box of 95s.

Why not a smaller case like the 284?
What bullet we going to be shooting? 90+ class
You have any reamer specs on it?
Has anyone else played with it already?
Powders?

Havent thought about it much but the 22UM thread got me excited for a hot rod 22 magnum cartridge.

Not against the 284 case, just assumed a magnum cartridge would be better.

I think the 88ELDM would be a great bullet for hunting. If there’s a bigger one that’s just as devastating on game, then use that one.

I have zero reamer specs. Was more or less thinking about necking down an existing cartridge such as a PRC, SAUM, or WSM cartridge

Other than UM with the 22UM and Primal rights with his 22 Primal, I do not know.

Powders? N565 and N570 have to be top candidates.

 

[NSI]

Havent thought about it much but the 22UM thread got me excited for a hot rod 22 magnum cartridge.

Not against the 284 case, just assumed a magnum cartridge would be better.

I think the 88ELDM would be a great bullet for hunting. If there’s a bigger one that’s just as devastating on game, then use that one.

I have zero reamer specs. Was more or less thinking about necking down an existing cartridge such as a PRC, SAUM, or WSM cartridge

Other than UM with the 22UM and Primal rights with his 22 Primal, I do not know.

Powders? N565 and N570 have to be top candidates.

@mxgsfmdpx there was some 22 eldm you didn’t love terminally. Kindly remind me?

-J

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

@mxgsfmdpx there was some 22 eldm you didn’t love terminally. Kindly remind me?

-J

Copied and pasted from the 22CM thread…

For those of you who shoot factory ammo- I’ve seen a couple times in this thread the 80 eldx has better terminal results than the eldm. Is that a fair assessment?

Again, it's not all to say that I wouldn't kill with the 80 or 88 M's (I have done it and they work fine). It's just in what I've seen in kills with the 77 TMK's and 80 ELDX's, they seem to be better/more consistent. This is the case with any 6mm or .224 M versus X as well.

For 18-20” barrels, I assume using factory ammo and a 1in 7.5 or 1in 8 twist would be fine to keep the rpm around 300.

Factory 80 ELDX's can be picky lot to lot in which guns shoot them. Some guns/barrels are 1.25ish MOA while others I have not been able to get them to shoot better than 2 MOA. Hand loads help bring this in to acceptable numbers in most cases. While there is no factory option for them, the 77 TMK's and 88 M's have averaged the best average MOA in 3 different guns and 4 different barrels (all 8 twist barrels).

Currently have 6.5 PRC and 223 tikkas and it’s between this and a 6 creedmoor. More familiar with 6 creed configurations but this thread has me leaning at 22 creed instead. Even out west I’m limiting shots under 700 in best case scenarios.

700 yards is no issue for 22 Creed. My 80 ELDX 22 Creeds actually outperform my 103 ELDX 6 creed and 243 at longer ranges (most think it's the other way around).

 

[hereinaz]

@mxgsfmdpx there was some 22 eldm you didn’t love terminally. Kindly remind me?

-J

No love for the 88s, they aren’t reliable to expand as explained to me.

 

[Deadspace]

No love for the 88s, they aren’t reliable to expand as explained to me.

I wasn’t aware of that. I thought they were the go to heavy bullet for the 22 cal. Plus all of this is just a giant want. A 22 creed is plenty but it’s always fun to push things to the limit. Thanks for the info on the 88s @mxgsfmdpx

 

[waspocrew]

I’ve killed a mule deer buck (315 yards) and doe antelope (420 yards) with the 88 ELDM. Both of them died quickly. Small sample, but I’ve been happy with them. They’re cheap and shoot well, so I’ll keep working through the stash I have.

 

[Miflatlander91]

No love for the 88s, they aren’t reliable to expand as explained to me.

I switched the the eldx for this reason it they got the job done but I wasn’t super impressed with the 88s


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[mxgsfmdpx]

I wasn’t aware of that. I thought they were the go to heavy bullet for the 22 cal. Plus all of this is just a giant want. A 22 creed is plenty but it’s always fun to push things to the limit. Thanks for the info on the 88s @mxgsfmdpx

In most cases they are fine and will kill as I mentioned. It’s just there’s a better option in what I’ve seen with the 80Xs and 77 TMKs.