Is there anyone who prefers MOA vs MIls for hunting purposes?

[mxgsfmdpx]

VS what? What spotter is calling in an angular measurement without a reticle? Say they have a reticle they are spotting, are they moving the reticle over to the location of the shot to measure on the animal? Sounds insanely slow.

If someone told me I shot under the belly of an elk by 5 inches, whether its 3 or 8 inches really, a guy can look at what that POA/POI discrepancy is in their scope and make a quick correction on a target that big. Different story obviously if you're shooting at a <2 MOA target and you missed POA by 4 MOA.

In reality, If I missed POA by 20" at 500 yards (and missed the animal), i'm probably going to have a WTF, something is wrong moment and try to figure it out before sending another round at an animal.

Nobody is accurately “calling” a 5” low miss while hunting at 500 yards. Same as nobody is then accurately “holding” 5” higher on a follow up shot at 500 yards. Was the point I was very poorly trying to make.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

If im spotting for someone with a reticle in my spotting scope, my center point will already be in the "kill zone." once i spot the miss the reticle is my ruler to tell me exactly how much. I wouldnt have to move anything at all to make the call.

Shooter should then be able to make the exact adjustment

additional note.... if you are only missing "5 inches" on an animal the follow up shot is going to be tough regardless since you most likely hit the thing or the bullet passed several yards past the animal causing a splash that would be damn near impossible to tell how far under it really was.

Most misses ive seen are splashes low and in front of the animal, usually more in feet than inches. I think we are getting into the weeds on this

Exactly.

 

[ni7ne]

I use MOA, but it's a little funny when sworn MOA guys get confused at the mention of "seconds."

It's only a matter of time before some benchrest weirdo starts asking for 1/60th moa turrets.

 

[nm.otter]

if you are only missing "5 inches" on an animal the follow up shot is going to be tough regardless since you most likely hit the thing or the bullet passed several yards past the animal causing a splash that would be damn near impossible to tell how far under it really was.

Most misses ive seen are splashes low and in front of the animal, usually more in feet than inches. I think we are getting into the weeds on this

This ^^^

 

[svivian]

additionally, if my spotter tells me im 5" low at 500 yards thats completely useless. Now i have to confirm was that 5" under the deer or 5" from POA? If I missed 5" under the belly my call better me much larger.

No wonder there are "rodeos"

 

[TaperPin]

It’s not even about figuring drop in your head. Even if both shooters need to look at their DOPE, base-10 is easier to manage.

If your DOPE says 6.43 MOA, you’re going to dial to “6” and then think “how many 1/4 MOA clicks is 0.43?” You’ll then round up to 0.5 and dial two more clicks. If your DOPE is 2.3 mrad, you’ll dial to the “2” and then add 3 clicks. Simple. If your DOPE is 17.65 MOA, you’ll dial one 15-MOA revolutuon and then think about adding 2.65 MOA, dial to the “2,” round up to 0.75, and add 3 clicks. With mrad, if your DOPE is 12.8 mrad, you’ll dial one 10-mrad revolution, dial to the “2,” and add 8 clicks (or dial to “3” and take away 2 clicks). Notice that with mrad you’re not rounding numbers in your head. Under stress and time pressure, simpler is better.

If dope says 6.43 I’m using 6.5, and everyone should use 6.5 in that situation. Without more than grade school math in my head that’s a 560 yard shot.

Quite honestly I can’t help if rounding like that is too difficult.

 

[CorbLand]

additionally, if my spotter tells me im 5" low at 500 yards thats completely useless. Now i have to confirm was that 5" under the deer or 5" from POA? If I missed 5" under the belly my call better me much larger.

No wonder there are "rodeos"

if you hunt regularly with people, having a “system” is worth while.

If a shot hits the animal but is low of the center of the vitals, it’s hit low. The correction amount is the estimated amount low of the center of the vitals.

If the shot misses the animal low, it’s missed low. The correction amount is the estimated distance from the center of the vitals.

That’s worked well for us.

But we aren’t trying to be seal team six so most of our corrections are just guesses. We don’t possess nor desire to possess the skill to accurately call 5 inches at 500 yards.

 

[xsn10s]

This is entertaining to watch. All this talk about inches low or high. This is a perfect example why inches shouldn't even be used for describing misses. If you have a moa based reticle then the spotter should use a moa bino or whatever for spotting. Same for mils.

 

[HuntHarder]

This is entertaining to watch. All this talk about inches low or high. This is a perfect example why inches shouldn't even be used for describing misses. If you have a moa based reticle then the spotter should use a moa bino or whatever for spotting. Same for mils.

I wish everyone I hunted with, was this experienced. Most, I would hate to guess 90%?, hunters probably do not have reticles in their binoculars. The average hunter misses a deer at 300 yards high. How do you tell them to aim on the follow up if there are no reticles in your binoculars?

 

[TaperPin]

That sure would be nice if animals only came out and stood there in 50 and 100 yard increments.

What is the strategy you teach Timmy for the wind side of things? A fellow curious head dropped kid (me) is curious.

That’s easy - a full 10 mph wind is 2 MOA at any distance to 400 yards with a flat shooting rifle and 2 MOA out to 300 yards with something like an ‘06. That’s off at shorter distances, but it wont be the reason for a miss at that range. Can you remember 2 @ 400? Most folks can. Quick! A buck is headed over the ridge at 330 yards, what’s the wind call?!? lol Even you knew the answer after reading this paragraph and you don’t use MOA.

Wind call error with me is 50% on target in broken terrain even with a wind meter and I grew up shooting in the wind, so I am under no dilusion that long shots with huge wind calls are high percentage. Beyond 400 yards I’ll take the time to figure a more exact number, but that 50% error means even a 10 mph 500 yard shot is pushing the limits unless it’s out in the flats where it’s more predictable.

 

[JF_Idaho]

I wish everyone I hunted with was this experienced. Most, I would hate to guess 90%?, hunters probably do not have reticles in their binoculars. The average hunter misses a deer at 300 yards high. How do you tell them to aim on the follow up if there are no reticles in your binoculars?

You don't. You just laugh at them and then bust their balls for years to come over that BOAL they missed. That's what friends are for.

 

[roadrunner]

Pretty simple, really, to judge how much 5" is on an elk. Even some RSders agree:

Height of an Elk

What wapitbob said earlier (post #59) is what most hunters do that know their rifle...

 

[HuntHarder]

You don't. You just laugh at them and then bust their balls for years to come over that BOAL they missed. That's what friends are for.

I love it! I am bound to be part of a miss or 2 this year. I am going to try this approach.

 

[xsn10s]

I wish everyone I hunted with was this experienced. Most, I would hate to guess 90%?, hunters probably do not have reticles in their binoculars. The average hunter misses a deer at 300 yards high. How do you tell them to aim on the follow up if there are no reticles in your binoculars?

If you didn't have a moa or mil based reticle in whatever you used for spotting then I suggest this. Before hunting work out a system with your hunting partner. Use target total length or height. For height it might be easier for belly to back. But whatever it should be decided prior to hunting and practiced. My buddies and I practiced while hunting rock chucks.

 

[wapitibob]

Nobody is accurately “calling” a 5” low miss while hunting at 500 yards. Same as nobody is then accurately “holding” 5” higher on a follow up shot at 500 yards. Was the point I was very poorly trying to make.

Hitting 5” below my aim point at 500 will kill any animal I’m shooting at or have shot in the past. No follow up shot required.

 

[Jordan Smith]

I was lucky to have learned on one of the first mrad/mrad scopes... taxpayer-purchased Leupold Mk4s. Never had much reason to go to moa/moa after that.

But after that I tutored university physics and wrote ballistics software, so the numbers behind the theory are like breathing at this point.

The primary advantage of mrad or MOA is in the actual use, not the numbers nor the theory, which is why I asked. If you've never worked much with MOA, you won't fully appreciate the difference, as minor as it may be.

We'd get along fine. I've got a couple of degrees in physics and also have written a few pieces of ballistic software.

 

[TaperPin]

That sure would be nice if animals only came out and stood there in 50 and 100 yard increments.

What is the strategy you teach Timmy for the wind side of things? A fellow curious head dropped kid (me) is curious.

20 yard increments equal 1/2 MOA for most rifles in that 300 to 600 yard range. If you read the prior post 400 yards = 2.5 MOA, 500 yards = 5 MOA, and 600 yards = 7.5 MOA.

Quick!! Buck going over the ridge at 540 yards what’s the hold?!? Depending on a guy’s short term memory, that’s 6 MOA knowing nothing other than what I’ve said in this post. That is simple. Quick!! What’s 420?!? Even you thought 3 MOA, after glancing up at the 400 yard hold.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I wish everyone I hunted with was this experienced. Most, I would hate to guess 90%?, hunters probably do not have reticles in their binoculars. The average hunter misses a deer at 300 yards high. How do you tell them to aim on the follow up if there are no reticles in your binoculars?

They probably missed high because they suck (guilty myself) not because they need to change their hold.

 

[Jordan Smith]

If you didn't have a moa or mil based reticle in whatever you used for spotting then I suggest this. Before hunting work out a system with your hunting partner. Use target total length or height. For height it might be easier for belly to back. But whatever it should be decided prior to hunting and practiced. My buddies and I practiced while hunting rock chucks.

Exactly. Use a visual scale that both spotter and shooter can relate to, rather than a number that is subjective to one's perception. 1/4 of the belly-to-back depth is much easier to coordinate between two people than what one person visualizes as 5" and the other visualizes as 10".

 

[TaperPin]

I know mils is the more popular option for longe range shooters and I understand alot of the benefits.

But I was thinking about a pure hunting situation when you have a spotter watching through a non reticle spotting scope while hunting and the shooter is shooting at a animal. The shooter misses and the spotter yells out 5” low. To me I can instantly convert that in my head to 5 moa at 500 yards distance.

Wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on that? Would like to switch over but getting hung up on that scenario


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyone is busting your chops for the typo, but every one of them knew what you ment. Every single person here has a hand about 5” across, so to say they have no idea how far 5” is on an animal or rock is silly.

More specialized methods work great if someone trains with their shooting buddies and they all enjoy it, but inches and the clock work for anyone anywhere with any amount of experience. I’ve had a good chuckle at a hard core MIL guy when his wife was shooting and didn’t know MILs - he didn’t know how to communicate, got frustrated with her, and she really got frustrated with him for being an asshat. That dude is probably single now and has “woman must know MILs” in his dating profile. Lol