Is there anyone who prefers MOA vs MIls for hunting purposes?

[mxgsfmdpx]

Some things are worth it!

Just get it on camera so we all can enjoy!

Here you go.

But you can’t use a 5 year olds hand, or Shaquille O Neal’s hand either.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Everyone is busting your chops for the typo, but every one of them knew what you ment. Every single person here has a hand about 5” across, so to say they have no idea how far 5” is on an animal or rock is silly.

More specialized methods work great if someone trains with their shooting buddies and they all enjoy it, but inches and the clock work for anyone anywhere with any amount of experience. I’ve had a good chuckle at a hard core MIL guy when his wife was shooting and didn’t know MILs - he didn’t know how to communicate, got frustrated with her, and she really got frustrated with him for being an asshat. That dude is probably single now and has “woman must know MILs” in his dating profile. Lol

I have seen experienced people misjudge, or judge differently, the size of a distant object in inches more times than I can count. It's not a reliable system if you want to consistently hit things at several hundred yards/meters.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

This normally makes Rokslider heads explode when it’s mentioned, but it is quite easy for someone to combine MOA calls and estimate the impact in inches without a reticle. That 10 mph wind call at 400 yards for example. You don’t like this system, but you remembered it’s 2 MOA, that’s good. Without a reticle, estimating 8” on target is a hand and a half wide. See, you’ve just used your first Kentucky windage MOA to inches wind hold and lived to tell the tail. The old timer rule of thumb is to hold to the upwind edge of the vital zone for 10 mph, which isn’t bad advice for 400 yards and under.

This is rokslide pushing their stuff on the masses get a little extra $. I will never fault anybody for grinding it out and making money. Its the rokstok its the shooting school etc. i think its awesome that so many people bite hook line and sinker, just not my jam. I am not against MIL, but will always prefer MOA.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is rokslide pushing their stuff on the masses get a little extra $. I will never fault anybody for grinding it out and making money. Its the rokstok its the shooting school etc. i think its awesome that so many people bite hook line and sinker, just not my jam. I am not against MIL, but will always prefer MOA.

Yeaaahhh that’s not what this thread is even close to being about lol, that’s an interesting take/thought process though.

There’s been good discussion and methodologies shared here that work for different folks. Your post is just silliness.

 

[Jordan Smith]

This is exactly what we/I do. Mils or Moa really doesn't matter as long as you both have an understanding if not using a reticle in spotter. Using the animals body with some sort of measurement is typically what you will hear, however I usually will throw out some sort of measurement in conjunction. (Left and right good, 5" below belly. ) This at least gets the shooter to understand generally where they missed. The spotter has the hardest job on the hill if the first shot misses. Accurately judging misses without a reticle is very difficult.

It's also far more effective to call the correction (where the spotter wants the next bullet to go), rather than calling where the miss went. Prevents confusion and tells the shooter what to do, rather than forcing the shooter to calculate what to do and then execute.

 

[Jordan Smith]

This is rokslide pushing their stuff on the masses get a little extra $. I will never fault anybody for grinding it out and making money. Its the rokstok its the shooting school etc. i think its awesome that so many people bite hook line and sinker, just not my jam. I am not against MIL, but will always prefer MOA.

The benefits of mrad scopes and reticles go far beyond this relatively small RS crowd.

You will always prefer MOA until you spend time with an open mind and a mrad system. Seen it too many times, including myself several years ago.

 

[atmat]

It’s funny how the guys arguing for mils are giving objective rationale, while most of the guys arguing for MOA are like, “RS just wants your money” or “just picture a human hand at 1000 yards and it’s easy.”

 

[SDHNTR]

LOL, it’s knowing that what you’re seeing in your scope is actually 5” that’s the tricky part. No need to try and think in inches. Just see your miss and hold off to compensate. If your reticle has an angular ruler, you can measure the correction with that. The trouble comes when trying to mesh two brains on a common scale for correction, and the angular ruler really helps there.

And I think seeing your miss is a far more important element than either system.

I’d be willing to bet that far more people blow it because they can’t see their miss due to too much magnification/recoil and don’t know how to correct, than they do because they use moa over mils.

 

[Diced]

I just do what the rangefinder says...

 

[SDHNTR]

I also think another important factor is we need more spotting scopes with ranging reticles in them. Then the spotter call problem is irrelevant.

 

[TaperPin]

Of course, on a screen it's easy to casually round. But when you're in a stressful situation with lots to think about and execute flawlessly, simpler, even minutely, is advantageous.

Aside from having to round, the number of clicks should line up with the number you need to dial.
- 0.62 MOA -> rounds to 0.5 MOA -> corresponds to 2 clicks
- 0.8 mrad -> 8 clicks. No translation between the angular correction and the number of clicks. Simple.

My old as dirt fixed Leupolds don’t click at all, so I may not be the best person to appreciate the difference. Without clicks any adjustment has to be visual. Could I count two clicks? I’m guessing yes?

Your point is definitely valid, we should simplify our system to avoid mistakes. Using the .62 MOA example which for my guns is 325ish yards, I teach the nephew to never dial anything unless it’s past 350 yards. We watch the Texas Plinking, or the other two Texas shooting competitions and get a good chuckle out of the number of times guys are dialing the wrong direction, or get dyslectic and turn 2.5 into 5.2

I can pick up a rifle not knowing what the cartridge is, dial to 300 yards for walking around in the field and know at 325 it will be half a hand width low, or close enough for the shot. No dialing, or risk of dialing the wrong direction. Your cartridge will also be a hand width high at 100 and 200 yards, and a full hand width low at 350. At least if it’s creedmoor, PRS, 243, 270, 7 mag or 300 mag.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

The benefits of mrad scopes and reticles go far beyond this relatively small RS crowd.

You will always prefer MOA until you spend time with an open mind and a mrad system. Seen it too many times, including myself several years ago.

For shooting games…For hunting I think it matters a lot less. I have owned and shot both MIL and MOA scopes for over 20 years. I think FFP vs SFP is a much more interesting conversation for hunting that MOA or MIL.

 

[Jordan Smith]

And I think seeing your miss is a far more important element than either system.

I’d be willing to bet that far more people blow it because they can’t see their miss due to too much magnification/recoil and don’t know how to correct, than they do because they use moa over mils.

For sure. We're debating the merits of something that provides minor benefits, but if we don't debate these things, who will?

 

[Jordan Smith]

My old as dirt fixed Leupolds don’t click at all, so I may not be the best person to appreciate the difference. Without clicks any adjustment has to be visual. Could I count two clicks? I’m guessing yes?

Your point is definitely valid, we should simplify our system to avoid mistakes. Using the .62 MOA example which for my guns is 325ish yards, I teach the nephew to never dial anything unless it’s past 350 yards. We watch the Texas Plinking, or the other two Texas shooting competitions and get a good chuckle out of the number of times guys are dialing the wrong direction, or get dyslectic and turn 2.5 into 5.2

I can pick up a rifle not knowing what the cartridge is, dial to 300 yards for walking around in the field and know at 325 it will be half a hand width low, or close enough for the shot. No dialing, or risk of dialing the wrong direction. Your cartridge will also be a hand width high at 100 and 200 yards, and a full hand width low at 350. At least if it’s creedmoor, PRS, 243, 270, 7 mag or 300 mag.

I also did the Kentucky windage and BDC things for several years. Today's mrad-based scopes just provide the option of doing things more precisely while keeping it simple, but there's no reason you can't use them the same way you've always used your old scopes.

 

[Jordan Smith]

For shooting games…For hunting I think it matters a lot less. I have owned and shot both MIL and MOA scopes for over 20 years. I think FFP vs SFP is a much more interesting conversation for hunting that MOA or MIL.

And for hunting. I do a bunch of both, and it helps in both activities.

I agree that FFP vs SFP is a higher-impact discussion than MOA vs mrad.

 

[Southern Lights]

In practice, it matters very little which you use hunting. I prefer mils for longer ranges, but have scopes in MOA also. Dialing dope it's all the same.

As for calling shots with a spotter, If they are not using a spotter with a reticle they should use the animal for reference.

Meaning in your case, if they said "5 inches low" it would be better if they said you were 1/3rd animal low. Then you simply move up 1/3rd higher and fire again. Same if you are left/right on wind. "You hit 1/2 deer left. Come right 1/2 deer."

This also works if you are running a SFP scope. Just ignore the reticle scale being off and hold off by animal.

The animal is at the scale of the shot correction so if you have a good spotter this works regardless of reticle scale, or no reticle scale at all.

 

[The Harbor Master]

I also did the Kentucky windage and BDC things for several years. Today's mrad-based scopes just provide the option of doing things more precisely while keeping it simple, but there's no reason you can't use them the same way you've always used your old scopes.

This is a great way of explaining what I'm thinking... I'm "MRAD curious" and even if I don't like it I can do the "know your hold-over" method I'm already doing with MOA scopes anyways.

But I've found that to be "risky," albeit my own doing. Earlier this year, shooting a 450yd target by knowing which BDC line corresponded, made consistent hits. Did some other shooting, came back to the 450 target, and missed WAY high. Took me awhile to realize that I had dialed back from 10x power to 6x power, thus my BDC hold was no longer accurate with my SFP scope. Granted with an FFP this would've gone differently but if I had dialed for elevation it wouldn't have mattered... if Im thinking of it correctly. But SFP/FFP is a different thread's argument...

 

[TaperPin]

It’s funny how the guys arguing for mils are giving objective rationale, while most of the guys arguing for MOA are like, “RS just wants your money” or “just picture a human hand at 1000 yards and it’s easy.”

It’s fun watching the trend to use MILs more. You guys aren’t wrong, but it’s far from a clear cut choice, or it would be so obviously a better system nobody would buy a MOA scope, let along learn to shoot MOA well.

When Im out shooting rocks with a buddy and he starts knocking the snot out things leaving me in the dust I’ll gladly change. If it’s actually better we should be able to easily see it’s better. No?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I have a trijicon 5-25x50 tenmile MIL scope I would love to trade for something in MOA. Hit me up all you people switching to MILs

 

[longrangelead]

This is rokslide pushing their stuff on the masses get a little extra $. I will never fault anybody for grinding it out and making money. Its the rokstok its the shooting school etc. i think its awesome that so many people bite hook line and sinker, just not my jam. I am not against MIL, but will always prefer MOA.

If quick drop and wind brackets were part of a 10 based system of "kiwis" OR wood pecker lengths I'd be using it over MOA.

I use the Rokstok and Mils because IT WORKS. if it didn't, I'd be looking for what is better.

You know what you call a business not trying to make money?
A charity...