Is there anyone who prefers MOA vs MIls for hunting purposes?

[atmat]

If I was 5” under the of point of aim, I’d aim 5” higher, moa or mil wouldn’t be a thought.

The animals I hunt don’t have tape measures beside them, so that’s not feasible for me unfortunately.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

If I was 5” under the of point of aim, I’d aim 5” higher, moa or mil wouldn’t be a thought.

Here’s an experiment you can try. Go paint an elk silhouette target in elk terrain to blend in. Don’t measure the target ahead of time so you don’t know the size of the elk.

Dial or hold for elevation, whatever your method is and shoot 5 shots at vitals.

Next, “aim” 5” higher and shoot 5 more shots. Now go measure the target and be amazed at how terrible you are at “aiming 5 inches high” at 500 yards in an animal.

Let’s say you have a “1 MOA All Day” gun. That’s already 5” or error at 500 yards just fyi.

 

[ni7ne]

Target distance is irrelevant. The advantage is the simplicity in dialing/holding DOPE and (when needed) assessing shot corrections.

You really shouldn't need to convert angular/absolute for any of that. Just stay in angular. That would suit 95% of shooters, honestly.
For what it's worth, I'm team mrad all day, but the advantages are very specific, and potentially irrelevant to a lot of people, especially if you carry a rf.

 

[5811]

Everything I own is MOA. For the simple reason that the people I hunt with also use MOA so there’s no confusion. Same reason I still pack a 7mag or 30-06. It’s what the people I hunt with use. Keeps everything similar.

Mommy taught me not to succumb to peer pressure.

It depends on what your definition of the word "is," is. Where I come from, doing what your friends do because they do it is....

 

[Jhconnected]

Here’s an experiment you can try. Go paint an elk silhouette target in elk terrain to blend in. Don’t measure the target ahead of time so you don’t know the size of the elk.

Dial or hold for elevation, whatever your method is and shoot 5 shots at vitals.

Next, “aim” 5” higher and shoot 5 more shots. Now go measure the target and be amazed at how terrible you are at “aiming 5 inches high” at 500 yards in an animal.

Yall just need to practice you’re Kentucky wind age a bit more

 

[nm.otter]

If I was 5” under the of point of aim, I’d aim 5” higher, moa or mil wouldn’t be a thought.

What reticle marking(s) does 5" cover?

 

[Jordan Smith]

The idea that someone using mils is somehow able to magically figure drop in their head as if gifted from birth doesn’t match what I see. I see guys who can’t function without a printout, or a solution from their gizmo.

It’s not even about figuring drop in your head. Even if both shooters need to look at their DOPE, base-10 is easier to manage.

If your DOPE says 6.43 MOA, you’re going to dial to “6” and then think “how many 1/4 MOA clicks is 0.43?” You’ll then round up to 0.5 and dial two more clicks. If your DOPE is 2.3 mrad, you’ll dial to the “2” and then add 3 clicks. Simple. If your DOPE is 17.65 MOA, you’ll dial one 15-MOA revolutuon and then think about adding 2.65 MOA, dial to the “2,” round up to 0.75, and add 3 clicks. With mrad, if your DOPE is 12.8 mrad, you’ll dial one 10-mrad revolution, dial to the “2,” and add 8 clicks (or dial to “3” and take away 2 clicks). Notice that with mrad you’re not rounding numbers in your head. Under stress and time pressure, simpler is better.

 

[Lawnboi]

View attachment 903911

I can't say that I've ever shot a critter where mils made a difference over MOA but it is a more intuitive setup than MOA especially if one is using quick drop/wind brackets.

I didn’t realize the level of the lack of understanding till this thread.

 

[svivian]

What kind of savant spotter knows you missed exactly “5 inches low” at 500 yards on an animal?

You dont call misses in pecker lengths like i do?! come on

 

[atmat]

You dont call misses in pecker lengths like i do?! come on

American or European?

 

[Jordan Smith]

If I was 5” under the of point of aim, I’d aim 5” higher, moa or mil wouldn’t be a thought.

LOL, it’s knowing that what you’re seeing in your scope is actually 5” that’s the tricky part. No need to try and think in inches. Just see your miss and hold off to compensate. If your reticle has an angular ruler, you can measure the correction with that. The trouble comes when trying to mesh two brains on a common scale for correction, and the angular ruler really helps there.

 

[wapitibob]

What reticle marking(s) does 5" cover?

Why the hell would I use a retiical marking? If the guy isn’t smart enough to simply aim 5 inches higher maybe he oughta stay home.

 

[CorbLand]

You dont call misses in pecker lengths like i do?! come on

I tried that but it got confusing having to tell people to adjust 10 pecker lengths up when they were 2 inches low.

 

[Jordan Smith]

You really shouldn't need to convert angular/absolute for any of that. Just stay in angular.

Exactly.

For what it's worth, I'm team mrad all day, but the advantages are very specific, and potentially irrelevant to a lot of people, especially if you carry a rf.

How much time have you spent working with both MOA and mrad scopes?

 

[wind gypsy]

Here’s an experiment you can try. Go paint an elk silhouette target in elk terrain to blend in. Don’t measure the target ahead of time so you don’t know the size of the elk.

Dial or hold for elevation, whatever your method is and shoot 5 shots at vitals.

Next, “aim” 5” higher and shoot 5 more shots. Now go measure the target and be amazed at how terrible you are at “aiming 5 inches high” at 500 yards in an animal.

Let’s say you have a “1 MOA All Day” gun. That’s already 5” or error at 500 yards just fyi.

VS what? What spotter is calling in an angular measurement without a reticle? Say they have a reticle they are spotting, are they moving the reticle over to the location of the shot to measure on the animal? Sounds insanely slow.

If someone told me I shot under the belly of an elk by 5 inches, whether its 3 or 8 inches really, a guy can look at what that POA/POI discrepancy is in their scope and make a quick correction on a target that big. Different story obviously if you're shooting at a <2 MOA target and you missed POA by 4 MOA.

In reality, If I missed POA by 20" at 500 yards (and missed the animal), i'm probably going to have a WTF, something is wrong moment and try to figure it out before sending another round at an animal.

 

[Jhconnected]

Why the hell would I use a retiical marking? If the guy isn’t smart enough to simply aim 5 inches higher maybe he oughta stay home.

What they’re saying is at 500 yards it’ll be hard to estimate 5” accurately. But, with the reticle you could measure the MOA/MIL distance from aim point to impact point and then adjust your new aim point.

That being said the animal will have run off already.

5” at 500 yards is 1 MOA btw.

 

[svivian]

I tried that but it got confusing having to tell people to adjust 10 pecker lengths up when they were 2 inches low.

when ever someone wants the calls in inches its always one pecker length, regardless of how far or close the miss was.... that way you are never wrong.

 

[svivian]

VS what? What spotter is calling in an angular measurement without a reticle? Say they have a reticle they are spotting, are they moving the reticle over to the location of the shot to measure on the animal? Sounds insanely slow.

If someone told me I shot under the belly of an elk by 5 inches, whether its 3 or 8 inches really, a guy can look at what that POA/POI discrepancy is in their scope and make a quick correction on a target that big. Different story obviously if you're shooting at a <2 MOA target and you missed POA by 4 MOA.

In reality, If I missed POA by 20" at 500 yards (and missed the animal), i'm probably going to have a WTF, something is wrong moment and try to figure it out before sending another round at an animal.

If im spotting for someone with a reticle in my spotting scope, my center point will already be in the "kill zone." once i spot the miss the reticle is my ruler to tell me exactly how much. I wouldnt have to move anything at all to make the call.

Shooter should then be able to make the exact adjustment

additional note.... if you are only missing "5 inches" on an animal the follow up shot is going to be tough regardless since you most likely hit the thing or the bullet passed several yards past the animal causing a splash that would be damn near impossible to tell how far under it really was.

Most misses ive seen are splashes low and in front of the animal, usually more in feet than inches. I think we are getting into the weeds on this

 

[ni7ne]

Exactly.


How much time have you spent working with both MOA and mrad scopes?

I was lucky to have learned on one of the first mrad/mrad scopes... taxpayer-purchased Leupold Mk4s. Never had much reason to go to moa/moa after that.

But after that I tutored university physics and wrote ballistics software, so the numbers behind the theory are like breathing at this point.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I use MOA, but it's a little funny when sworn MOA guys get confused at the mention of "seconds."