I gots the Covid.

[bsnedeker]

Can you cite any instances where emergency care became unavailable, surgeries/treatments were cancelled, or droves of healthcare workers quit because of the burdens of heart disease or diabetes? The point is that it isn't just about a particular person with heart disease or COVID, one has to take into consideration the broader impact on the health care system and other people who are reliant on it. People with heart disease aren't causing other people to die. The same cannot be said about COVID.

I am not a healthcare provider, I only play one on the internet.

Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away

Ray Martin DeMonia died on Sept. 1 in Meridian, Mississippi. His family struggled to find care, saying 43 hospitals had no ICU bed for him.

www.usatoday.com

Hospital filled with Covid-19 patients was forced to turn away someone needing emergency cancer treatment, doctor says | CNN

Dr. Nitesh Paryani, a third-generation radiation oncologist in Tampa, Florida, recently was forced to make a decision that he says he and his family have never had to make in 60 years of treating patients.

www.cnn.com

Nurses are leaving the profession, and replacing them won’t be easy

Long-term solutions to the nursing shortage call for changes that value nurses and offer them a safe place to work.

theconversation.com

lol... yeah, how about covid as an example? You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people hospitalized for covid were not young, fit people in good health. There is a huge correlation between obesity and hospitalization rates for covid.

Again, I'm not actually advocating for denying people health care because they choose to stuff their fat faces full of McDonald's. My point is that idea is morally reprehensible. If you disagree there is little point in debating because you and I are coming from completely opposite ends of the morality spectrum.

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[MattB]

Interesting factoid I learned today.

If you've had the covid vaccine within the last 30 days you are not eligible to start a new life insurance policy.

I called USAA and spoke with a licensed life insurance sales person and they called bull$#!+ on this. He actually giggled under his breath when I asked him the question.

 

[MattB]

lol... yeah, how about covid as an example? You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people hospitalized for covid were not young, fit people in good health. There is a huge correlation between obesity and hospitalization rates for covid.

Again, I'm not actually advocating for denying people health care because they choose to stuff their fat faces full of McDonald's. My point is that idea is morally reprehensible. If you disagree there is little point in debating because you and I are coming from completely opposite ends of the morality spectrum.

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The primary risk factor for COVID is age, not obesity.

But that still doesn't address the point that people with COVID - and most specifically the unvaccinated - have put an unprecedented burden on our healthcare system and that people other than the COVID suffers are dying because of the decision not to get vaccinated. While certainly not as direct, it has some parallels with abortion, no? My body, my choice? Or do we need to take into account others than the person making the decision.

 

[Fatcamp]

Pretty standard across organizations. This was from last week, but nothing much has changed I'm sure.

And once again, I have cared for numerous people who once diagnosed were prescribed the regimen many advocate for here and elsewhere. Ivermectin and supplements are no guarantee of avoiding very serious complications from a Covid infection. Anyone who claims otherwise is wrong.

 

[bsnedeker]

The primary risk factor for COVID is age, not obesity.

But that still doesn't address the point that people with COVID - and most specifically the unvaccinated - have put an unprecedented burden on our healthcare system and that people other than the COVID suffers are dying because of the decision not to get vaccinated. While certainly not as direct, it has some parallels with abortion, no? My body, my choice? Or do we need to take into account others than the person making the decision.

You are purposefully obfuscating and avoiding the original point made and trying to distract with topics that have nothing to do with my original point. I only debate with people who debate in good faith. Have a nice day.

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[durangobrad]

Interesting factoid I learned today.

If you've had the covid vaccine within the last 30 days you are not eligible to start a new life insurance policy.

Yeah I'll bet they did, got a source?

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[Geewhiz]

I called USAA and spoke with a licensed life insurance sales person and they called bull$#!+ on this. He actually giggled under his breath when I asked him the question.

I call bull$#!+ that you made the call to an insurance agency just to prove a guy wrong on a forum.

My work is renewing benefits and I spoke yesterday with an insurance broker while going over different policies and rates. She, who's job it is to know policies of multiple insurance companies like the back of her hand, asked me up front if I had received a covid vaccine in the past 30 days. I inquired, and she told me that if I was looking to start a new policy, I would not be eligible if I had received a covid vaccine within the last month. Her words not mine. I trust that she knows the business.

Clearly, as seen by how often you post on this thread, you love nothing more than a good argument. So, with that, I'm out.

 

[Trr15]

I call bull$#!+ that you made the call to an insurance agency just to prove a guy wrong on a forum.

My work is renewing benefits and I spoke yesterday with an insurance broker while going over different policies and rates. She, who's job it is to know policies of multiple insurance companies like the back of her hand, asked me up front if I had received a covid vaccine in the past 30 days. I inquired, and she told me that if I was looking to start a new policy, I would not be eligible if I had received a covid vaccine within the last month. Her words not mine. I trust that she knows the business.

Clearly, as seen by how often you post on this thread, you love nothing more than a good argument. So, with that, I'm out.

Coverage decisions differ by carrier as well, so (allegedly) calling USAA and using that conversation to call you a liar is pretty funny. All he wants to do is argue.

 

[Jbehredt]

Agreed...and that burden is orders of magnitude greater than the burden of covid. My entire point is that the very idea of denying healthcare to people based on choices to they make and dooming them to death is a pretty stupid position to take. As a healthcare provider do you disagree???

Ooh, you orders of magnituded him. He isn’t going to like that.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Don't forget the smokers.

Interesting world we live in today. Sure would be nice if we could pick and choose who gets medical care based only on the parameters I dictate. LOL. We could go a step further and dictate that anyone that votes for a liberal isn't allowed any government subsidized help at all. We could go round and round with this stuff all day, and we'd get right back to what Nazi Germany was doing. That really is how far off the tracks our nation has gone with this progressive thinking.

Shouldn't it go the other way, if you voted for the people trying to strip SNAP and medicare and unemployment you don't qualify?

That would put the GOP in a bind pretty quick.

 

[inyago]

It is out today, from the latest research that obesity is a driver in covid as the virus is using fat cells..
What do you have to say now..??

 

[inyago]

I could go on about, you know older people have more fat cells, older immune systems are not as quick
anymore at responding to attacks and that goes for your body in general..

 

[jmez]

If we are going to prioritize then it needs to be done based on the science. If you are old and unvaccinated you will be turned away, if you are obese and unvaccinated you will be turned away, etc until there is no undo burden on our healthcare system. You can't simply single out the unvaccinated, it needs to be prioritized correct?

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[5MilesBack]

Perhaps we can just go to vaccinated hospitals and unvaccinated hospitals for the future. Does that sound familiar? The divide in this nation just keeps growing and growing. At some point that has to come to a head between those that support the foundation of our nation and those that would prefer to just get rid of the foundation. We all know that without the foundation, the country crumbles. And we're seeing that real time before our eyes.

 

[rodney482]

Perhaps we can just go to vaccinated hospitals and unvaccinated hospitals for the future. Does that sound familiar? The divide in this nation just keeps growing and growing. At some point that has to come to a head between those that support the foundation of our nation and those that would prefer to just get rid of the foundation. We all know that without the foundation, the country crumbles. And we're seeing that real time before our eyes.

Vax bathrooms … nonvaxxed bathrooms

 

[fwafwow]

You can cut the data at the state level, country level, or individual level. Republicans are vaccinated for COVID at a significantly lower rate than Democrats and are (not unsurprisingly) dying from COVID at a significantly higher rate.

"NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.73 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates."

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame

An analysis by NPR shows that since the vaccine rollout, counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump have had more than twice the COVID mortality rates of those that voted for Joe Biden.

www.npr.org

Excerpt from an NBC article from August 2021 that surveyed individuals:

• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent

NBC News poll shows demographic breakdown of the vaccinated in the U.S.

First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter.

www.nbcnews.com

I think at least some of the folks who came up with these articles have a conclusion (Trump and/or Republicans are causing Covid deaths) and looking for data to support it. I think you and I have agreed on plenty of the science-related components of these various Covid threads, but I think trying to tie in politics to any particular point of view on Covid is going to be a challenge, and IMHO brings too much subjectivity and opinion into an area already fraught with disagreement.

I'm not sure the NPR article says Republicans are vaccinated at a lower rate - it merely draws an association from the deaths per 100k data, and an association doesn't equate to causation. (This point is acknowledged in passing in the NPR article, since they have no idea of the political leanings of those who died, but then the author immediately says "ut the strength of the association, combined with polling information about vaccination, strongly suggests that Republicans are being disproportionately affected." I again point to the "strong association" of consuming margarine and divorce - which is a spurious correlation). The NBC poll (and another telephone poll referenced in the NPR article) does say Republicans are less likely to be vaccinated, but I personally don't put any stock in telephone polls - especially an NBC poll of 1000 people, only 790 of whom are registered voters. As an example, that poll shows that blacks are more vaccinated than whites (76% vs 66%), but the CDC reports that blacks are 1.9x likely to die from Covid than whites. Can I now take those two statistics and draw any conclusions - like the vaccine works better for white people? No, and there's really nothing in the polls that can lead anyone to draw sound conclusions if they will concede that correlations can be spurious.

Mississippi and Alabama have (reportedly - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) the highest rates of Covid deaths per capita. Is that because they are red states, or counties, or individuals? Or could it be due to another reason, or many reasons (because the population is older or has more co-morbidities, vaccines and other health care isn't as available, etc.)? NJ has the third worst Covid mortality, and NY is 7th, but I don't think anyone can draw conclusions based on the residents of those states either.

 

[ODB]

View attachment 354946

Pretty standard across organizations. This was from last week, but nothing much has changed I'm sure.

And once again, I have cared for numerous people who once diagnosed were prescribed the regimen many advocate for here and elsewhere. Ivermectin and supplements are no guarantee of avoiding very serious complications from a Covid infection. Anyone who claims otherwise is wrong.

They need to add post-Covid re-infection rates in these hospital charts. One hell of a lot of people have had Covid in this country and we seem to like to ignore them.

I wish they would do much more study of post-Covid immunity durability. I can find studies that show both ends of the spectrum on that. And also whether those who have already had Covid need BOTH shots, and also the intervals between them. Again, I have seen studies that confirm the three-week spacing and those that say a delayed second shot result in better durability. And still others that say after having Covid only a single shot is needed.

 

[Fatcamp]

They need to add post-Covid re-infection rates in these hospital charts. One hell of a lot of people have had Covid in this country and we seem to like to ignore them.

I wish they would do much more study of post-Covid immunity durability. I can find studies that show both ends of the spectrum on that. And also whether those who have already had Covid need BOTH shots, and also the intervals between them. Again, I have seen studies that confirm the three-week spacing and those that say a delayed second shot result in better durability. And still others that say after having Covid only a single shot is needed.

It would be interesting to see, I agree. I have seen some folks with a second infection as patients, and also work with several nurses who have had it twice.

Honestly, I wish a study on Iveemectin that's peer reviewed and distributed would be done. So ******* tired of people claiming it's a suppressed cure-all when I care for people who are the exact opposite. Not saying anything one way or the other, I just wish they would study so we could give it and shut people up.

 

[ODB]

It would be interesting to see, I agree. I have seen some folks with a second infection as patients, and also work with several nurses who have had it twice.

Honestly, I wish a study on Iveemectin that's peer reviewed and distributed would be done. So ******* tired of people claiming it's a suppressed cure-all when I care for people who are the exact opposite. Not saying anything one way or the other, I just wish they would study so we could give it and shut people up.

Agree 100%. I don’t understand the hesitation to find ANYTHING that will help. That kind of hesitation creates the vacuums that are then filled with all kinds of nonsense. It’s really a win/win…you either find a workable treatment, or find it doesn’t work, either way it’s a positive step forward to the next thing.

I mean there was a study recently that Viagra may help prevent dementia. Viagra was initially used to help with angina. The cross-pollination of known, safe meds to help new diseases should be heavily encouraged.

 

[5MilesBack]

Honestly, I wish a study on Iveemectin that's peer reviewed and distributed would be done. So ******* tired of people claiming it's a suppressed cure-all when I care for people who are the exact opposite. Not saying anything one way or the other, I just wish they would study so we could give it and shut people up.

It's just like hydroxychloroquine. There were many doctors prescribing it early on and studies overseas showing how well it worked if given early after contracting Covid. Then Trump supported it and all heck broke loose causing it to be banned from existence almost.

Then the official studies done in the U.S. showed that it did nothing for patients, but their studies came from giving it to folks "after" they were already hospitalized instead of right after the infection showed symptoms. Even Pfizer and Merck have said their Covid pills only work if given early on.

I'd be interested in seeing a study done of the 40 million folks that take hydroxychloroquine every day for lupus and RA and see how they've all faired through this. What's their death rate after contracting Covid compared to everyone else?