Just curious where you stand on mandates? And by that I mean even in cases where any entity (private/government) requires any person who falls in the approved aged group to get vaxxed.
I gots the Covid.
- Thread starter rclouse79
- Start date
Just curious where you stand on mandates? And by that I mean even in cases where any entity (private/government) requires any person who falls in the approved aged group to get vaxxed.
I was specifically asking about the claimed 99.997%+ survival rate, and the individual who posted that replied that he was counting every American in the denominator. This assumes that, if an individual has not yet caught the disease, they have survived it,
The national stats can be found in the link below. Based on the same methodology you cited, as of yesterday they reflect a Case Fatality Rate of 2.04% (812,205/39,742,867). Regardless, both 1.2% and 2.04% are orders of magnitude greater than the 0.003% that was claimed.
ttps://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
At present, I do not think COVID vaccine mandates makes sense given COVID's propensity to mutate and questions surrounding the effectiveness of the current vaccines on current/future variants. Not to mention that natural immunity is not being taken into account.
If the virus was one that we could reasonably expect not to mutate, I would be more supportive of vaccine mandates - analogous to how we require kids to have certain vaccines to enter school.
I do understand the overarching frustration of public health officials that is driving the mandates given a significant percentage of the U.S. population has elected to base their vaccination decision on politics, misinformation and conspiracy theories rather than science. My sense is that, in hindsight, there will be millions of Americans who will feel dumb about being duped when retrospectively examining the adverse impact to our economy, the health care system, state/national debt, mental health/state of society, etc. of prolonging the effects of the pandemic.
5MilesBack
"DADDY"
Personally, I don't really care about the death rates extracted from the numbers of those that have had confirmed cases. I prefer to look at the overall population numbers as to how great a threat something is to the nation as a whole, or our society, or communities. And given those parameters.......the virus has NOT been much of a threat to the nation. Yet the same players from even when this virus began are still pushing the same narratives, restrictions, and mandates even though they know they aren't and never were needed. Keeping our rights, liberties, and freedoms intact is always more important than some perceived safety level and/or measures.
Quick question for those of you who actually work in a hospital setting thru this… fatcamp, aktroutbum, troutnut etc…..
Do you know your hospitals protocol for treatment once patient tests positive?
Myself, lots of close family and coworkers who’ve all had the rona over the last year we’re all told to go home, isolate, and stay hydrated. But head to ER if you have trouble breathing or lips turn blue.
Do you know your hospitals protocol for treatment once patient tests positive?
Myself, lots of close family and coworkers who’ve all had the rona over the last year we’re all told to go home, isolate, and stay hydrated. But head to ER if you have trouble breathing or lips turn blue.
This was the exact protocol given from Mayo - stay home, isolate and go to the ER if you can't breath. Useless as a screen door on a submarine. Thankfully I have a close friend who is a doctor and was able to get us the medications needed to be on from day 1. Had we followed Mayo's directive, its highly likely 1 or more of my elderly family members may not be with us today. Instead, we got what we needed and it was all a non-event for everyone.
Funny how medical professionals all came out to say "its not the flu" from the get go. Then why in the hell are they treating it like the damn flu if that's the case? Frankly, Mayo was horrible when it comes to Covid - unless you are in their ECU and insurance is paying big bucks, then I'm sure the quality of care is great.
Amazing how they won't support Ivermectin, but they are damn near pushing Cannabis products like a drug dealer. I recently found out one of their board members is a huge investor in the CBD industry. Now it all makes sense. Just needed a board member at Mayo to get $$ on the sly from an Ivermectin mfr I suppose.
Both sides of the political isle have politicized Covid. Both sides have pushed conspiracy theories. The left was Anti-Vax under Trump. Both sides constantly push misinformation. And leftists are the worst when it comes to "actual science". I'm a chemical engineer who lives science on a daily basis. If what I do for a living doesn't work, I don't get paid. I don't get the luxury of making up wild ass claims and complete technical BS under the disguise as "science" without being held accountable for claims.
FYI - Fully vaccinated and fully support the Trump developed vaccines
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- Jan 18, 2016
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Good luck with that
. But seriously good to hear!As a vaccinated individual, do you think the left is to blame for the US being way behind many other first world countries in vaccination rates - considering red states and counties are generally below the national average in terms of vaccination rates and many ahead in terms of death rates?
And your post is exactly how all things Covid get politicized. Without knowing actual demographics of the unvaccinated Red states, you automatically assume its folks on the right as the cause of the problem.
I live in AZ which has turned into a purple state. +81% of the population 35 and older is fully vaccinated. I know equal amounts of R's, I's, and D's that are not vaccinated, nearly all of them simply because they were being government mandated, not because of anything to do with the vaccines themselves. They just don't want to get it because the government is making them. Honestly, if the government wasn't mandating it, many would get it. I've been told that point blank by people, most of them I's.
I tell everyone I know to get one of the Trump developed vaccines. Its the #1 way for Covid to be a little to no-issue, issue. That said, I would never support "mandates" . This is America, land of the free. If people don't want it, then that's on them.
Funny how the left is all about "my body, my choice" on abortion and were against the vaccines when Trump was leading the charge to develop them. Suddenly Biden gets into office, and the whole "my body, my choice" doesn't apply to the vaccines.
All sides have politicized this. All sides have conspiracy theories. All sides push propaganda. No side has the moral high ground.
No, my post was an observation on the result of the politicization of vaccination. It is not coincidence that when one looks at the 10 most vaccinated states, 9 voted for Biden. And when one looks at the 10 least vaccinated states, 9 voted for Trump.
Do you believe that is coincidence? Perhaps if Trump had publicized that he was vaccinated rather than hiding it, the results would be different.
Understanding Vaccination Progress - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
This table lays out the key metrics for understanding vaccination progress by U.S. state: doses administered, people fully vaccinated, and percentage of people fully vaccinated by population.
coronavirus.jhu.edu
So I do work in a hospital but I am not clinical (Safety & emergency management). Me, my wife and daughter followed our doc's recommendations for rest, hydration, high dose Vitamin C, D and Zinc as well as Mucinex D. We also drank a lot of Rooibos tea with raw honey. I have been using the tea for respiratory ailments for quite some time. There are studies right now in how it reduces lung inflammation in Covid patients.
I just cannot buy into this paper thin theory,i live in a community that is all red,Trump supporting conservatives who despise Biden and his entire campaign. Guess what we dont have a problem with? You guessed it, Covid. There has hardly been even mild cases of covid here from day one. Take your theory about Trump supporters and go pound sand.No, my post was an observation on the result of the politicization of vaccination. It is not coincidence that when one looks at the 10 most vaccinated states, 9 voted for Biden. And when one looks at the 10 least vaccinated states, 9 voted for Trump.
Do you believe that is coincidence? Perhaps if Trump had publicized that he was vaccinated rather than hiding it, the results would be different.
Understanding Vaccination Progress - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
This table lays out the key metrics for understanding vaccination progress by U.S. state: doses administered, people fully vaccinated, and percentage of people fully vaccinated by population.
5MilesBack
"DADDY"
That has nothing to do with Trump or Biden. It's amazing how some folks seem to think that conservatives just sit and wait for what "Trump" says or does to make our decisions. Trump has absolutely no bearing or influence on our decisions or our decision making process. "Oh my......what will we possibly do after Trump is gone"? LOL.
Conservatives believe in personal choice......especially when it comes to our own healthcare decisions. We don't live in fear, and we operate on logic and reason......not emotion. We don't panic just because the government says "this virus will kill you". We tend to be much more on the independent side of the scale versus the dependent side of the scale in life. And we don't take well to a government "ordering" us to "fall in line.....or else". Quite frankly, the government would have been better off without all the mandates. This wouldn't have been politicized much and people would have made their own choices. They may have very well had a higher vaccine rate than they do now.
None of this should have ever been politicized. This is America, which was founded and operates differently than the rest of the world for good reason. I just wish politicians acted more like patriots than.........well, politicians. But I also realize that there is a very large proportion of the population that needs that hand-holding and constant care from the government. But that doesn't mean "we" do.
fwafwow
WKR
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I think that this point about tying vaccination levels with "red" and "blue" states might be an oversimplification.No, my post was an observation on the result of the politicization of vaccination. It is not coincidence that when one looks at the 10 most vaccinated states, 9 voted for Biden. And when one looks at the 10 least vaccinated states, 9 voted for Trump.
Do you believe that is coincidence? Perhaps if Trump had publicized that he was vaccinated rather than hiding it, the results would be different.
Understanding Vaccination Progress - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
This table lays out the key metrics for understanding vaccination progress by U.S. state: doses administered, people fully vaccinated, and percentage of people fully vaccinated by population.
- There were lots of people in both that voted for the other candidate. So a "blue" state didn't vote for Biden - just more than half of the voters did. The same is true for "red" states and Trump.
- A vote for one candidate doesn't mean support for everything that candidate stands for (as was pointed out), or disagreement with everything the other candidate supports. Yet a vote for one candidate could could also just be a vote against the other candidate.
- If we are in a discussion about science, we should acknowledge that correlation isn't the same as causation. It absolutely could be a coincidence - just like the divorce rate and consumption of butter in Maine. Highly correlated, but just a coincidence.
jmez
WKR
Not sure why everything now has to be compared back to Trump vs Biden.
Let's pretend Joe Biden and Donald Trump and political parties don't exist.
You have a conservative leaning individual, you have a liberal leaning individual. Which is more likely to choose liberty over safety? Which is more likely to have a positive response to a government mandate?
It's really not that hard.
Let's pretend Joe Biden and Donald Trump and political parties don't exist.
You have a conservative leaning individual, you have a liberal leaning individual. Which is more likely to choose liberty over safety? Which is more likely to have a positive response to a government mandate?
It's really not that hard.
You can cut the data at the state level, country level, or individual level. Republicans are vaccinated for COVID at a significantly lower rate than Democrats and are (not unsurprisingly) dying from COVID at a significantly higher rate.
"NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.73 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates."
Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame
An analysis by NPR shows that since the vaccine rollout, counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump have had more than twice the COVID mortality rates of those that voted for Joe Biden.
www.npr.org
Excerpt from an NBC article from August 2021 that surveyed individuals:
- Democrats: 88 percent
- Independents: 60 percent
- Republicans: 55 percent
- Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
- Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
NBC News poll shows demographic breakdown of the vaccinated in the U.S.
First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter.
www.nbcnews.com
We aren't talking about mandates, we are talking about voluntary vaccination - so the paradigm of it being a trade-off between safety and liberty is not relevant. And we can't strip away the political party aspect from the discussion as it is the tribalism tied to that which is part of the basis for the divide.
jmez
WKR
You can strip away political party. Everything in our lives goes back to tribalism. Which tribe is ones individual human nature. One side is always going to seek safety or perceived safety over the other.
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Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
5MilesBack
"DADDY"
So more conservatives are dying from Covid, huh? Fine, now leave us alone and let us live whatever we have left of our lives without the constant berating of making a choice that was different than the majority made. Sheesh, it's not that difficult.
"But, but, but........you're not making the choice that WE want you to make".
"But, but, but........you're not making the choice that WE want you to make".
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