I gots the Covid.

[durangobrad]

So more conservatives are dying from Covid, huh? Fine, now leave us alone and let us live whatever we have left of our lives without the constant berating of making a choice that was different than the majority made. Sheesh, it's not that difficult.

"But, but, but........you're not making the choice that WE want you to make".

I'm fine with this, as long as they also choose to not go to the hospital to receive treatment for covid either.



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[bsnedeker]

I'm fine with this, as long as they also choose to not go to the hospital to receive treatment for covid either.



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As long as fat people are not allowed to go to the hospital for heart disease and diabetes...that sounds fair to me.

 

[durangobrad]

As long as fat people are not allowed to go to the hospital for heart disease and diabetes...that sounds fair to me.

Yeah cause that's a great apples to apples comparison....

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[bsnedeker]

Yeah cause that's a great apples to apples comparison....

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Explain to me the difference...go ahead, I'll wait.

edit: You know what, you are correct...they are totally different. Obesity is a choice that people make that kills WAY more people than Covid has or ever will.

 

[5MilesBack]

As long as fat people are not allowed to go to the hospital for heart disease and diabetes...that sounds fair to me.

Don't forget the smokers.

Interesting world we live in today. Sure would be nice if we could pick and choose who gets medical care based only on the parameters I dictate. LOL. We could go a step further and dictate that anyone that votes for a liberal isn't allowed any government subsidized help at all. We could go round and round with this stuff all day, and we'd get right back to what Nazi Germany was doing. That really is how far off the tracks our nation has gone with this progressive thinking.

 

[durangobrad]

Don't forget the smokers.

Interesting world we live in today. Sure would be nice if we could pick and choose who gets medical care based only on the parameters I dictate. LOL. We could go a step further and dictate that anyone that votes for a liberal isn't allowed any government subsidized help at all. We could go round and round with this stuff all day, and we'd get right back to what Nazi Germany was doing. That really is how far off the tracks our nation has gone with this progressive thinking.

I don't smoke, so wouldn't really know, but don't smokers pay higher insurance premiums?

Maybe people without COVID vaccination also should.

When 9 out of 10 people in the ICU for covid aren't vaccinated and the average cost of a COVID hospitalization is 40k, it starts to add up.

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[downthepipe]

As long as you are a consistent conservative!

- I have the right to die how I want (Covid!)
- You don’t have the right to die how you want (physician assisted death with dignity).

-You have no right to tell me what happens to my body (vaccination)
-You don’t have the right to terminate an an undesired pregnancy even if within the first trimester (abortion)

We could play this game on both sides. There’s just a lot of irony in this whole deal.

 

[bsnedeker]

I love the disingenuous arguments equating abortion to the idea of "choice". That's like a pastor citing the bible in a discussion with an atheist. The only way that argument holds water is you don't believe you are murdering a baby in the act. This is OBVIOUSLY the position of everyone that is pro-life so acting like the only person being affected is the "mother" is absurd.

The abortion argument comes down to when you believe a human life becomes a human life and has value. I believe that happens at conception, "pro-choice" people believe otherwise. That is a debate that is worth having and is important. The idea that you are philosophically inconsistent if you don't want to be forced to inject crap into yourself and you also don't believe people should be having abortions is absurd.

That said, I'm entirely consistent in my beliefs. I think people have a right to end their lives however they want to. I also believe that the federal government should not be legislating morality and I feel abortion is a question of morality (I struggle with this, but that's where I'm at today anyway).

 

[FLATHEAD]

I just want to be left alone, and be allowed to make my own healthcare decisions.
Is that so radical?

 

[bsnedeker]

I just want to be left alone, and be allowed to make my own healthcare decisions.
Is that so radical?

You are OBVIOUSLY a Fascist! I don't know what that word means but twitter said it soooo....

 

[MattB]

Explain to me the difference...go ahead, I'll wait.

edit: You know what, you are correct...they are totally different. Obesity is a choice that people make that kills WAY more people than Covid has or ever will.

One presents a relatively constant burden on our healthcare system which it is geared to handle, and the other is not predictable and comes in waves and occasionally overwhelms the healthcare system which causes downstream impacts.

Given the COVID vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death, both are choices.

 

[5MilesBack]

I don't smoke, so wouldn't really know, but don't smokers pay higher insurance premiums?

Maybe people without COVID vaccination also should.

When 9 out of 10 people in the ICU for covid aren't vaccinated and the average cost of a COVID hospitalization is 40k, it starts to add up.

Ahhhhh insurance.........now we're in a totally new territory and argument. How about no insurance, and pay as you go........for everyone? I'm all for that.

 

[Trr15]

One presents a relatively constant burden on our healthcare system which it is geared to handle, and the other is not predictable and comes in waves and occasionally overwhelms the healthcare system which causes downstream impacts.

Given the COVID vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death, both are choices.

So it’s only the unpredictability that you take issue with? What if cyclical Covid infection trends are established over time and the healthcare system ramps up capacity to meet the demand. All good then?

 

[5MilesBack]

-You have no right to tell me what happens to my body (vaccination)
-You don’t have the right to terminate an an undesired pregnancy even if within the first trimester (abortion)

Yes we can play this game.......the logic game. What does killing another human being have to do with someone else's body? Are you trying to imply that an abortion is just a choice in healthcare? The usual argument is "my body, my choice". And I'll play that game too. If someone wants to get an abortion based on that argument........fine. Do genetic testing of what was removed and if the DNA is exactly the same as the mother, then fine......they just removed a body part of the mother. But if the DNA is different......then that wasn't part of the women's body.......it was a different human being.

And your first attempt assumes that someone is "choosing" death by Covid. I don't think anyone that has died from Covid chose that.

You got anymore examples?

 

[bsnedeker]

One presents a relatively constant burden on our healthcare system which it is geared to handle, and the other is not predictable and comes in waves and occasionally overwhelms the healthcare system which causes downstream impacts.

Given the COVID vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death, both are choices.

Agreed...and that burden is orders of magnitude greater than the burden of covid. My entire point is that the very idea of denying healthcare to people based on choices to they make and dooming them to death is a pretty stupid position to take. As a healthcare provider do you disagree???

 

[5MilesBack]

One presents a relatively constant burden on our healthcare system which it is geared to handle, and the other is not predictable and comes in waves and occasionally overwhelms the healthcare system which causes downstream impacts.

They can't be that overwhelmed........otherwise they wouldn't have fired perfectly capable employees.

 

[Geewhiz]

Interesting factoid I learned today.

If you've had the covid vaccine within the last 30 days you are not eligible to start a new life insurance policy.

 

[5MilesBack]

Agreed...and that burden is orders of magnitude greater than the burden of covid. My entire point is that the very idea of denying healthcare to people based on choices to they make and dooming them to death is a pretty stupid position to take. As a healthcare provider do you disagree???

That would also most likely violate any version of the hippocratic oath that these medical providers have sworn to. But the original versions also covered physician assisted deaths and abortion as well, and we're way past that these days. Just shows how far our morals have fallen.

 

[MattB]

Agreed...and that burden is orders of magnitude greater than the burden of covid. My entire point is that the very idea of denying healthcare to people based on choices to they make and dooming them to death is a pretty stupid position to take. As a healthcare provider do you disagree???

Can you cite any instances where emergency care became unavailable, surgeries/treatments were cancelled, or droves of healthcare workers quit because of the burdens of heart disease or diabetes? The point is that it isn't just about a particular person with heart disease or COVID, one has to take into consideration the broader impact on the health care system and other people who are reliant on it. People with heart disease aren't causing other people to die. The same cannot be said about COVID.

I am not a healthcare provider, I only play one on the internet.

Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away

Ray Martin DeMonia died on Sept. 1 in Meridian, Mississippi. His family struggled to find care, saying 43 hospitals had no ICU bed for him.

www.usatoday.com

Hospital filled with Covid-19 patients was forced to turn away someone needing emergency cancer treatment, doctor says | CNN

Dr. Nitesh Paryani, a third-generation radiation oncologist in Tampa, Florida, recently was forced to make a decision that he says he and his family have never had to make in 60 years of treating patients.

www.cnn.com

Nurses are leaving the profession, and replacing them won’t be easy

Long-term solutions to the nursing shortage call for changes that value nurses and offer them a safe place to work.

theconversation.com

 

[bsnedeker]

Can you cite any instances where emergency care became unavailable, surgeries/treatments were cancelled, or droves of healthcare workers quit because of the burdens of heart disease or diabetes? The point is that it isn't just about a particular person with heart disease or COVID, one has to take into consideration the broader impact on the health care system and other people who are reliant on it. People with heart disease aren't causing other people to die. The same cannot be said about COVID.

I am not a healthcare provider, I only play one on the internet.

Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away

Ray Martin DeMonia died on Sept. 1 in Meridian, Mississippi. His family struggled to find care, saying 43 hospitals had no ICU bed for him.

www.usatoday.com

Hospital filled with Covid-19 patients was forced to turn away someone needing emergency cancer treatment, doctor says | CNN

Dr. Nitesh Paryani, a third-generation radiation oncologist in Tampa, Florida, recently was forced to make a decision that he says he and his family have never had to make in 60 years of treating patients.

www.cnn.com

Nurses are leaving the profession, and replacing them won’t be easy

Long-term solutions to the nursing shortage call for changes that value nurses and offer them a safe place to work.

theconversation.com

lol... yeah, how about covid as an example? You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people hospitalized for covid were not young, fit people in good health. There is a huge correlation between obesity and hospitalization rates for covid.

Again, I'm not actually advocating for denying people health care because they choose to stuff their fat faces full of McDonald's. My point is that idea is morally reprehensible. If you disagree there is little point in debating because you and I are coming from completely opposite ends of the morality spectrum.

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