Elk Hunting Montana Outfitters

[Ross]

No need my focus has been certain areas are affected more heavily in the nwest corner and Idaho where my experience is…thus for better hunter success myself included due to the heavy wolf congregation shown in this map it is better to hunt areas not severely affected…more wolves less elk pretty easy to see that..was not the case before them

 

[BuzzH]

No need my focus has been certain areas are affected more heavily in the nwest corner and Idaho where my experience is…thus for better hunter success myself included due to the heavy wolf congregation shown in this map it is better to hunt areas not severely affected…more wolves less elk pretty easy to see that..was not the case before them

He's the statewide biologist for wolves...and knows his stuff.

Lots of things weren't the case before wolves reestablished themselves in NW Montana. Fact.

 

[bsnedeker]

He's the statewide biologist for wolves...and knows his stuff.

Lots of things weren't the case before wolves reestablished themselves in NW Montana. Fact.

Ok seriously, do you actually believe they have any idea how many wolves we have in this state? Talk to the biologists on the ground out here (not some dude sitting behind a desk in Helena) and they will freely tell you they have no idea. They don't even know how many grizz we have and you think they can count wolves with any accuracy?

I asked one of the biologists up here this year about the grizz population and he literally told me "Well, we caught 50 in the Swan this year so we know we have at least that many." And then straight up told me they have no way of knowing the number.

In 2020 the wolf harvest was 328 wolves...you think people are SO good at hunting wolves that we take over 1/3 of the population out every year? Really?

 

[Deadspace]

Cut the lion population in half...wolf predation isn't even an issue anymore.

Not necessarily. According to a couple studies lions do kill more cow and calve elk than wolves. But only by a small margin. Even though their numbers more than double wolves, they’re only killing about 3% more cows and 17% more calves. Wolves in small numbers clearly pose a bigger threat to elk.

 

[BuzzH]

Ok seriously, do you actually believe they have any idea how many wolves we have in this state? Talk to the biologists on the ground out here (not some dude sitting behind a desk in Helena) and they will freely tell you they have no idea. They don't even know how many grizz we have and you think they can count wolves with any accuracy?

I asked one of the biologists up here this year about the grizz population and he literally told me "Well, we caught 50 in the Swan this year so we know we have at least that many." And then straight up told me they have no way of knowing the number.

In 2020 the wolf harvest was 328 wolves...you think people are SO good at hunting wolves that we take over 1/3 of the population out every year? Really?

I do believe Tye, he doesn't sit behind a desk in Helena and spends more days in the field on accident than you do on purpose. Knows more about wolves than you'll ever forget. I also believe Jamie Jonkel as well, I used to do track surveys for him while I was running my trap line in Montana. Which covered a large part of the Blackfoot and Clark Fork drainages. I kept a record of lion, bobcat, wolf, marten, fisher, and lynx tracks for him, voluntarily of course.

Yes, I do believe that we kill 1/4 to 1/3 of the population a year in Montana and the population estimate seems reasonable and arrived at through the best available science.

You need that phone number? They/He are more than willing to tell you how they arrive at their population estimates....argue with him about it.

I tend to put more faith in a guy, that has facts, science, and a ton of field work on wolves specifically, that deals with everyday, over emotional hyperbole and jibberish.

Yes, the biologists (in MT, ID, and WY from various agencies)have a darn good idea how many grizzlies we have....if they didn't, they wouldn't be petitioning the USFWS to delist them...if only obviously.

You don't petition for a delisting without having your chit together, another fact.

 

[bsnedeker]

I do believe Tye, he doesn't sit behind a desk in Helena and spends more days in the field on accident than you do on purpose. Knows more about wolves than you'll ever forget. I also believe Jamie Jonkel as well, I used to do track surveys for him while I was running my trap line in Montana. Which covered a large part of the Blackfoot and Clark Fork drainages. I kept a record of lion, bobcat, wolf, marten, fisher, and lynx tracks for him, voluntarily of course.

Yes, I do believe that we kill 1/4 to 1/3 of the population a year in Montana and the population estimate seems reasonable and arrived at through the best available science.

You need that phone number? They/He are more than willing to tell you how they arrive at their population estimates....argue with him about it.

I tend to put more faith in a guy, that has facts, science, and a ton of field work on wolves specifically, that deals with everyday, over emotional hyperbole and jibberish.

Yes, the biologists (in MT, ID, and WY from various agencies)have a darn good idea how many grizzlies we have....if they didn't, they wouldn't be petitioning the USFWS to delist them...if only obviously.

You don't petition for a delisting without having your chit together, another fact.

I said I was done....so just picture that sloth gif saying "tell me more" in your mind for me.

 

[BuzzH]

Not necessarily. According to a couple studies lions do kill more cow and calve elk than wolves. But only by a small margin. Even though their numbers more than double wolves, they’re only killing about 3% more cows and 17% more calves. Wolves in small numbers clearly pose a bigger threat to elk.

100 cats to 50...that's only 2500 less ungulates a year they aren't killing.

Then I also assume killing half the wolves will also be inconsequential then? I mean they kill about the same number of elk.

 

[BuzzH]

I said I was done....so just picture that sloth gif saying "tell me more" in your mind for me.

I have their phone numbers...they deal with guys like you all the time. Educating the public on wildlife is part of their jobs.

 

[bsnedeker]

I have their phone numbers...they deal with guys like you all the time. Educating the public on wildlife is part of their jobs.

Someone needs a nap I think.

 

[Deadfall]

I been guiding on Bob a couple decades. Wolves are detrimental. More so then any other predator. Closely followed by grizzly bears. In the complex both are everywhere.

Every year privates manage to kill a few horses/mules. We drag them off for the forest service. Then put a trail camera on carcass. We have pi tires of wolves and bears sharing the carcass.

Last season: More then once there was what sounded like a firing line of wolves that strung out 4 or 5 miles.

Used to be tgat during the course of a hunting day you would see 40 or 50 deer. Now maybe 10. Maybe.

Elk are same.

Used to see a dozen or so moose throughout the year. Now, maybe 1. Sometimes none in a year.

I dont care what anyone says. Wolves are single most detrimental predator to ungalates.

That's from my own experience. I spend months in the field.

Now wolves are staying in wilderness year round because they getting hunted so hard outside of wilderness.

 

[BuzzH]

Someone needs a nap I think.

Others need the first clue...

 

[BuzzH]

I been guiding on Bob a couple decades. Wolves are detrimental. More so then any other predator. Closely followed by grizzly bears. In the complex both are everywhere.

Every year privates manage to kill a few horses/mules. We drag them off for the forest service. Then put a trail camera on carcass. We have pi tires of wolves and bears sharing the carcass.

Last season: More then once there was what sounded like a firing line of wolves that strung out 4 or 5 miles.

Used to be tgat during the course of a hunting day you would see 40 or 50 deer. Now maybe 10. Maybe.

Elk are same.

Used to see a dozen or so moose throughout the year. Now, maybe 1. Sometimes none in a year.

I dont care what anyone says. Wolves are single most detrimental predator to ungalates.

That's from my own experience. I spend months in the field.

Now wolves are staying in wilderness year round because they getting hunted so hard outside of wilderness.

If they killed all the elk and deer in the Bob, what are they eating?

 

[Deadfall]

If they killed all the elk and deer in the Bob, what are they eating?

Didn't say they've killed them all. Not yet anyway.

 

[Deadfall]

They working on. It though. Cats are also putting a whooping on ungalates.

Wolves are a all year predator.
Bears most detrimental to elk in spring during calving.

Cats in the summer/winter.

The Bears and Cats don't have to eat as much as a pack of wolves.

We have packs everywhere in this neck of woods.

No way in the world I'm going to believe other then what my eyes see.

 

[Deadfall]

I would agree cats are more detrimental to sheep, goats.

 

[mtluckydan]

Buzz...last night you said there were 5000 cats in Montana, tonight there's 6000...they're having more fun than me and definitely keeping busy. Not sure they have time to kill anything if they're reproducing at that rate....!!!Where's your sources Buzz...spouting more unsubstantiated numbers and practicing what you accused me of??? When you do your math on how many ungulates are being eaten by cats...do you use 5000 or 6000...or do you average them and call it close enough. You said I went off the rails...it seems like you might be losing it...how old are you???

In all seriousness...none of these guys believe you as you have no credibility and as I stated previously....obnoxious. You are consistent....you tell everyone else they don't know what they're talking about and their sources suck. Then you use either no sources at all or ridiculous sources that are out of context for a given circumstance. I guess you have no comment on the citation I posted from the Post de-listing document for Idaho. Either it fully supports what myself, Ross and others have experienced and seen in the woods or it's so definitive you can't really tear it down. It's easier to spout off BS and your used to getting away with that without being called out.

We all know you're a great hunter as your typical MO is to tell everyone they suck or don't know how to hunt and then post photos of yourself and others with dead animals and beat on your chest. I congratulate you on both your hunting ability and your uncanny ability to show everyone what an azz you are. In the end, you're not convincing anyone you're right and there are a lot of good hunters on here that are a lot nicer than you are that agree with us.

 

[sneaky]

i wanted nate. He is the best guide.

derek was my first year and he is a fun guy but it was his first year and didn't know the area.

second year i dont even recall his name but i knew he was a meat packer the previous.

this year they said they would give me a "walker". and give me nate the second week. so i decided to hunt alone and was succesful.

what week were you there? i hunted the area of the camp they have up the river. its all public land. i actually seen the elk creek guys road hunting most days out there.

I have a couple of friends who went with Nate about 5 years ago. My buddy shot a good bull with him. Nate works hard and knows the area, but there's just too much pressure on those elk.

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[QuackAttack]

What? You mean quality habitat has something to do with increases in ducks, elk, deer, etc.? Is that what you're saying?

No way....sounds like a bunch of liberal mumbo-jumbo hippy stuff to me.

We'd have more ducks if it weren't for wolves.

Wolves and cats actually do kill a fair number of birds, especially up in AK and similar. When the ducks are moulting, wolves and various cats kill the heck out of them due to reduced ability to fly.

Personally, I am of the opinion that we have far too many predators of all sizes. I see more skunks than I’ve ever seen…coyotes constantly…opossums weekly…feral cats…foxes…lynx…stuff I rarely saw as a kid. Predators are thick.

it’s a big reason we can’t get quail and turkey numbers to rebound. Game and fish across the south blames it on floods causing nest damage…but it’s in dry places too that don’t flood.

 

[sneaky]

OH, I forgot about that! They also paved the way this year for exactly that and legalized private organizations reimbursing individuals for their expenses related to wolf hunting and trapping. So far no organization has materialized to my knowledge, but I'd be willing to bet it won't take long. I bought a SxS with tracks specifically to get after wolves this year and I'm going to take my trapping certification this spring so I'm pretty excited about being able to get help with those expenses and decrease the population of wolves up here as much as I can.

Foundation for Wildlife Management already has chapters set up in MT. F4WM.org everyone should join if nothing else to contribute to the expense fund for reimbursements.

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[sneaky]

be a good winter hobby to break even on.

Very few people will break even on it, even trappers. I caught my first wolf here in Idaho the day after Thanksgiving and they haven't been back through since. I still have to run my line at least every 72hrs, and time and fuel and equipment costs add up quick. The reimbursement money helps, but it doesn't really make a dent in the total expenses. We don't chase wolves to make money at it, that's entirely the wrong reason. They need managed because they'll most likely get relisted in the next year or so because of the meddling of the Idaho and Montana legislatures in the season setting process. The antis are using public funds to file frivolous lawsuits and the number of those suits is piling up.

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