"DOI will work with HUD to identify lands to offload for the development of affordable homes"

Architect? That is definitely the biggest insult in your comment.

The land sits doing nothing. It isn’t hunted, farmed, recreated, etc., and it is either inaccessible to wildlife or will be soon, as all of the adjacent land is either already developed or will be.

I believe in public land and love recreating on it as much as anyone, but not all land is equal.

It’s not as simple as “oh this land is useless let’s build on it.” Ok.. so you just brought in hundreds of thousands more people. Those people are now using more of an already strained water supply, those people are now recreating on already overused public lands, and so on and so forth. In all of this back and forth, not one of you has been able to address issue 1a: the water.

We are essentially at carrying capacity out here if we want it to maintain any semblance of what it is now.
 
Please point out where I did that.

“One thing I learned is just how deep the employee (or lack of business/industry) mindset is for the average person, RS included.”

For the second time, we understand the nuance. We fundamentally disagree on the importance of protecting public land
 
“One thing I learned is just how deep the employee (or lack of business/industry) mindset is for the average person, RS included.”

This was not pertaining to supply and demand.

For the second time, we understand the nuance. We fundamentally disagree on the importance of protecting public land

You do not know that. You don't even know my position..... I never even stated it.
 
The land sits doing nothing. It isn’t hunted, farmed, recreated, etc., and it is either inaccessible to wildlife or will be soon, as all of the adjacent land is either already developed or will be
Sounds like it could use some access so that people can recreate on it- if all the adjacent areas are developed there needs to be some greenspace. Or if it truly has no value for anything but development, it sounds like a perfect candidate for an exchange.

If the DOI was talking about land exchanges instead of outright selling I’d be much more supportive
 
The land sits doing nothing. It isn’t hunted, farmed, recreated, etc., and it is either inaccessible to wildlife or will be soon, as all of the adjacent land is either already developed or will be.
Don’t want to get myself too involved in this pissing match but just for context, that land is doing something regardless of whether or not there’s deer, elk, insert your favorite animal to hunt here on it. Every piece of land is habitat for something whether that be ground squirrels, owls, lizards, snakes, bugs, plants, etc. Just because it appears to be “doing nothing” does not mean that it is not providing habitat. Regardless of whether you value the animals/plants that you don’t hunt, each piece of undeveloped land is habitat for something living. Now, whether or not you are okay with getting rid of that is a values based choice.

I am of the opinion to build up, not out. That comes partially because I have come to value the animals and plants in an intrinsic manner. People here probably would scoff at me if they saw how I act when rattlers hit me with a warning. It’s like a thank you buddy, I’ll will go the other way. Younger me didn’t know/see the value of snakes and other wildlife that I did not hunt. Now I have a deep appreciation for it and that is why I don’t want to sell public lands. Not every piece of land I recreate on is hunt-able or pristine, but I still value those pieces because they provide habitat for other animals and plants that don’t necessarily have a consumptive value to me but have a value that I can’t place a price tag on because it is intrinsic.

However, I am not going to pretend to know the intricacies surrounding permitting for building within municipalities so I can’t say how to fix that particular issue. I would like to see it be fixed. Maybe telling the NIMBY crowd that they can have more traffic or less public land to recreate would be helpful? Not sure how many of them would value public land high enough to choose it over traffic though.
 
It’s not as simple as “oh this land is useless let’s build on it.” Ok.. so you just brought in hundreds of thousands more people. Those people are now using more of an already strained water supply, those people are now recreating on already overused public lands, and so on and so forth. In all of this back and forth, not one of you has been able to address issue 1a: the water.

We are essentially at carrying capacity out here if we want it to maintain any semblance of what it is now.
It's "affordable housing" so this isn't going to be rich people relocating there, this is for your locals who already live there and got priced out of their lives by the rich people moving in and driving up prices of everything.

Also water is an issue everywhere, so are resources. Our earth is overpopulated, it's just something that has to be addressed. I'm in San Antonio, they're always screaming about the aquifer and water, we can't water our yards by law most of the summer.
 
It's "affordable housing" so this isn't going to be rich people relocating there, this is for your locals who already live there and got priced out of their lives by the rich people moving in and driving up prices of everything.

Also water is an issue everywhere, so are resources. Our earth is overpopulated, it's just something that has to be addressed.
Look at population growth trends in western states. This will 100% result in an influx of even more people.

Water is not an issue everywhere in the U.S. like it is out here. That’s flat out wrong.

The two sides of this discussion clearly will not see eye to eye so I’m done wasting my time on this.
 
Look at population growth trends in western states. This will 100% result in an influx of even more people.

Water is not an issue everywhere in the U.S. like it is out here. That’s flat out wrong.

The two sides of this discussion clearly will not see eye to eye so I’m done wasting my time on this.
You think it's growing fast out there don't look at the stats for Texas and Florida.
 
Don’t want to get myself too involved in this pissing match but just for context,
That's not true, lol. For the record, I don't want to get involved either, lol
that land is doing something regardless of whether or not there’s deer, elk, insert your favorite animal to hunt here on it. Every piece of land is habitat for something whether that be ground squirrels, owls, lizards, snakes, bugs, plants, etc. Just because it appears to be “doing nothing” does not mean that it is not providing habitat. Regardless of whether you value the animals/plants that you don’t hunt, each piece of undeveloped land is habitat for something living. Now, whether or not you are okay with getting rid of that is a values based choice.
OK, I completely agree with you and yes it is values plants and animals over humans. There is a spectrum of values too.
I am of the opinion to build up, not out. That comes partially because I have come to value the animals and plants in an intrinsic manner. People here probably would scoff at me if they saw how I act when rattlers hit me with a warning. It’s like a thank you buddy, I’ll will go the other way. Younger me didn’t know/see the value of snakes and other wildlife that I did not hunt. Now I have a deep appreciation for it and that is why I don’t want to sell public lands. Not every piece of land I recreate on is hunt-able or pristine, but I still value those pieces because they provide habitat for other animals and plants that don’t necessarily have a consumptive value to me but have a value that I can’t place a price tag on because it is intrinsic.
Seems like you place the greatest value on plants and animals welfare than us humans? Which is your prerogative and you are intitled to that.
However, I am not going to pretend to know the intricacies surrounding permitting for building within municipalities so I can’t say how to fix that particular issue. I would like to see it be fixed. Maybe telling the NIMBY crowd that they can have more traffic or less public land to recreate would be helpful? Not sure how many of them would value public land high enough to choose it over traffic though.
You just do not want ANY Federal, Public land to be developed for anything that benefits humans to the detriments of plants and animals. Why don't you just say that, why are you virtu-signalling, so much?

I want Federal Public Land to be conserved for plants and animals (prioritizing the largests mammals, with less priority for the smaller animals and finally not caring a bit about ants and cockroaches, there are plenty in the world) AND utilized for the benefit of humans (Recreation, off roading, fishing, hunting, development of oil and gas, etc.) . I am on the opposite side of the spectrum than you, but I am not at the extreme end of development, I am a much more on the moderate development, utilization than you are a Protectionist, No Development at all.
Bill
 
It's "affordable housing" so this isn't going to be rich people relocating there, this is for your locals who already live there and got priced out of their lives by the rich people moving in and driving up prices of everything.

Also water is an issue everywhere, so are resources. Our earth is overpopulated, it's just something that has to be addressed. I'm in San Antonio, they're always screaming about the aquifer and water, we can't water our yards by law most of the summer.
Until “affordable” is spelled out in black and white with actual numbers, it’s way more likely to end up as McMansions or giant ranches. At this point, “affordable” is just a buzz word to try and make this pass the sniff test.
 
Until “affordable” is spelled out in black and white with actual numbers, it’s way more likely to end up as McMansions or giant ranches. At this point, “affordable” is just a buzz word to try and make this pass the sniff test.
That's why they're working with your local municipalities and states to identify potential usage, if it goes South you can blame your locals.
 
That's why they're working with your local municipalities and states to identify potential usage, if it goes South you can blame your locals.
So if the program is a complete cluster you’re happy giving the blame to locals? You don’t think the feds should have any accountability?

Hopefully the feds will have a Signal group chat leak so we can keep up with progress.
 
So if the program is a complete cluster you’re happy giving the blame to locals? You don’t think the feds should have any accountability?
If they work with your locals and your locals lead them astray then it's your locals' fault, yes. If the Feds push and go against recommendations from the locals then it's the Feds' fault. There's a reason they're reaching to the locals to identify "potential" properties that would be useful. They want to do it right and the locals will know best.
 
I think we all know that lower staff numbers combined with trying to streamline this type of process is going to lead to inevitable backlogs, which could, in theory, lead to calls for reform to make it easier and less regulated. Personally, I think that is the whole point of what they’re doing, but that is a subjective interpretation which I am open to hearing others opinions on. I’m sick and tired of fighting with people I believe have the same goals as we do over other dumb stuff.
I disagree. I believe lower staff levels, especially much lower levels of senior bureaucrates, will help streamline these bureacracies and make them more efficient. Less regulation will be easier to achieve with less bureaucrates, which is a secondary reason for the cuts. Who are the people you are fighting with? People like me who want to slash our bloated, corrupt, incompetent, federal government agencies? I am also a passionate hunter who has enjoyed decades of hunting and fishing on our great Federal Public Lands! Am I supposed to be against anything and everything that possibility threatens my future Federal Public land hunting and fishing possibilities? I don't think so!
If we can all agree we have the same goals, then we can move towards collaborative nonpartisan solutions.
What are your goals? What do those empty words mean? Why don't you state what you mean if you are right and noble? Why be so vague?
 
I disagree. I believe lower staff levels, especially much lower levels of senior bureaucrates, will help streamline these bureacracies and make them more efficient. Less regulation will be easier to achieve with less bureaucrates, which is a secondary reason for the cuts. Who are the people you are fighting with? People like me who want to slash our bloated, corrupt, incompetent, federal government agencies? I am also a passionate hunter who has enjoyed decades of hunting and fishing on our great Federal Public Lands! Am I supposed to be against anything and everything that possibility threatens my future Federal Public land hunting and fishing possibilities? I don't think so!

What are your goals? What do those empty words mean? Why don't you state what you mean if you are right and noble? Why be so vague?
Ah yes. Making things efficient by giving one guy three jobs. Surely the level of service will not deteriorate…
 
Those people are now using more of an already strained water supply, those people are now recreating on already overused public lands,

We are essentially at carrying capacity out here if we want it to maintain any semblance of what it is now.
I think we passed that point in the late 70s. "Those" millions and millions and millions of recent immigrants need a place to live with resources which will HEAVILY tax our already overused public lands! Our Federal Public Lands will GREATLY constrict and quaility will diminish with the influx of all these new immigrants. There is not much anyone can do, except stem the flow of new immigrants. I dont like any of it one bit either, however, I'm very practical and pragmatic.
 
Ah yes. Making things efficient by giving one guy three jobs. Surely the level of service will not deteriorate…
I read his post to mean it's making things efficient by eliminating meaningless jobs that slow things down and make basic tasks harder. I think we've all been in those meetings that could be emails and worked for a project manager somewhere that created all sorts of red tape and speed bumps for things, people trying to justify their jobs with mundane irrelevant busy work, etc.
 
Ah yes. Making things efficient by giving one guy three jobs. Surely the level of service will not deteriorate…
The level of service does not need to deteriorate. The scope of his services will deteriorate, that's the point. You either like the bloated Federal Government the way it is or you don't. Like everything there is a spectrum, I applaud the administration slashing the Federal Government, some may think this is too extreme, so may think the government should be bigger.
 
I read his post to mean it's making things efficient by eliminating meaningless jobs that slow things down and make basic tasks harder. I think we've all been in those meetings that could be emails and worked for a project manager somewhere that created all sorts of red tape and speed bumps for things, people trying to justify their jobs with mundane irrelevant busy work, etetc.
Yes, to eliminate worthless bureaucrates, mostly senior and management that don't do anything, and make it difficult to get anything done.
 
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