Cliff Grays Podcast with Aaron Davidson

[SDHNTR]

I’ve never listened to one of his podcasts admittedly. I don’t have the attention span for most podcasts.

But I have watched plenty of his LRP episodes, and the vibe is clear. Thousand yards out of the box and go slay!

 

[SDHNTR]

He talks about it a lot on his podcast. Especially some older ones. He is not on the newer ones as much.

Heck, on this particular podcast, right around the 12:00 mark he clearly says his target market is the wealthy business owner type looking for a shortcut. He almost says that word for word! He later goes on to literally say his system was “designed for the guy who has the job, but doesn’t have the time.” He clearly infers these guys don’t have the time to practice extensively so his products make it easier. His customer, has chosen not to “make this their thing” (his words!) referencing shooting practice, so his products makes them good enough to be competent. He actually said that! Sorry, if thinking that is wrong is judgmental, I’m judgmental af! I turned it off after hearing all that nonsense.

I fully understand the convenience business model. My own business is largely built around the concept of convenience. But to me, there are some things sacred that need to be learned organically and without a shortcut. Shooting, especially shooting 1000 damn yards, is one of them!

 

[Flyjunky]

Aaron literally discusses how long they've been offering training and teaching to their customers. They've been at it I'd bet longer than "Form" has been a presence on the web.

People not even listening to what the guy talked about and then bashing him over it. Don't make no sense and doesn't help your cause.

Exactly, highly doubt Aaaron says “here is your gun, don’t worry about practicing, wind skills, or anything else…just go kill stuff.

 

[BCDJR]

Seems to me if you don’t want to shoot anything over 500 yards then don’t buy a gun with more reach. Maybe a 30-30 or a 45-70. But don’t criticize folks who want something better.

Also lots of cars go 140 mph so don’t buy those either.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

So good, post again Aaron. Let’s keep it going

 

[deerhunter628]

Heck, on this particular podcast, right around the 12:00 mark he clearly says his target market is the wealthy business owner type looking for a shortcut. He almost says that word for word! He later goes on to literally say his system was “designed for the guy who has the job, but doesn’t have the time.” He clearly infers these guys don’t have the time to practice extensively so his products make it easier. His customer, has chosen not to “make this their thing” (his words!) so his products makes them good enough to be competent. He actually said that! Sorry, if thinking that is wrong is judgmental, I’m judgmental af! I turned it off after hearing all that nonsense.

I fully understand the convenience business model. My own business is largely built around the concept of convenience. But to me, there are some things sacred that need to be learned organically and without a shortcut. Shooting, especially shooting 1000 damn yards, is one of them!

I take that as the easy button meaning: they mount the scope correctly, do the load development, load the ammo, sight it in. All of that would save a lot of time. I think you are trying to find a reason to find fault in Aaron and Gunwerks for some reason.

 

[SDHNTR]

Some things just shouldn’t have an easy button.

 

[HuntHarder]

Davidson is an Awesome guest in my opinion. Very candid, non PC and has his own opinions. I enjoyed Ryan's podcast with him.

 

[huntnful]

Good couple of podcasts. You literally can’t be good and understanding of all aspects of your life. Everyone has taken a million shortcuts that other people have built into their lives. Some much more important than killing an animal.

We put it on such a huge pedastal because that’s all we might think about. But we’re judging while using electronics we you couldn’t even build 1% of and have something that functions.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with putting together a proper system, selling it, and encouraging the purchasers to learn to use the equipments via a course. Just like almost everything else in life. You either built the system and completely understand it, or buy the system that someone else built and understands.

What the user decides after the purchase is on them.

 

[Flyjunky]

Good couple of podcasts. You literally can’t be good and understanding of all aspects of your life. Everyone has taken a million shortcuts that other people have built into their lives. Some much more important than killing an animal.

We put it on such a huge pedastal because that’s all we might think about. But we’re judging while using electronics we you couldn’t even build 1% of and have something that functions.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with putting together a proper system, selling it, and encouraging the purchasers to learn to use the equipments via a course. Just like almost everything else in life. You either built the system and completely understand it, or buy the system that someone else built and understands.

What the user decides after the purchase is on them.

Well said

 

[Aaron Davidson]

Exactly, highly doubt Aaaron says “here is your gun, don’t worry about practicing, wind skills, or anything else…just go kill stuff.

You guys need to pay attention like this guy, Our equipment bypasses the effort and knowledge required to setup a long range system. It's not trivial, I think 80 percent of the custom rifle builders out there don't even know how to do this thoroughly. This allows ours customers to focus on the aspects of equipment management, shot execution, and the most important-wind reading. We started our long range university training customers in 2007 and every lr hunting class on the market today is an offshoot or direct copy of our curriculum. Your class envy is showing, let it go.

 

[JohnJohnson]

You guys need to pay attention like this guy, Our equipment bypasses the effort and knowledge required to setup a long range system. It's not trivial, I think 80 percent of the custom rifle builders out there don't even know how to do this thoroughly. This allows ours customers to focus on the aspects of equipment management, shot execution, and the most important-wind reading. We started our long range university training customers in 2007 and every lr hunting class on the matter today is an offshoot or direct copy of our curriculum. Your class envy is showing, let it go.

Think you might be replying to the wrong person. That guy was supporting you (at least as far as I interpreted).

 

[BCDJR]

Following up on Aaron’s comments. Following my purchase of a GW product I knew I did not have all the skills to gauge wind. I had hunted in many countries for many decades but never used ballistic turrets or reticles with moa. I had taken a break from big game hunting and boy had things changed with technology and innovation! I spoke a bit with Aaron and decided to attend a class down here in the SE conducted by a former GW instructor, James Eagleman. I went into the class knowing I lacked the knowledge to read wind at distance. I still am not perfect but I am 50 % better now with mirage and wind. Also the classes deal with ballistic information and understanding how to true your rifle. If you get nothing else from the class the ability to judge and call wind in the rain and in normal conditions it’s worth the price of admission. In my case we shot from bi pods….not a Sinclair bench rest setup so similar to hunting situations.

 

[Chris in TN]

Some things just shouldn’t have an easy button.

There are aspects of long range hunting that I'm not a huge fan of and don't want to encourage. Specifically, I want to always encourage people to stay within their competency zone, which is likely smaller than most of us think, and not the same for every scenario.

As an American citizen, though, I absolutely enthusiastically love, love, love the idea of making us a nation of riflemen again, for reasons that are far more important to me than hunting is.

 

[SDHNTR]

There are aspects of long range hunting that I'm not a huge fan of and don't want to encourage. Specifically, I want to always encourage people to stay within their competency zone, which is likely smaller than most of us think, and not the same for every scenario.

As an American citizen, though, I absolutely enthusiastically love, love, love the idea of making us a nation of riflemen again, for reasons that are far more important to me than hunting is.

That I can understand.

 

[Aaron Davidson]

Think you might be replying to the wrong person. That guy was supporting you

I was trying to agree with him, my response was not clear.

 

[willfrye027]

Just setting up a system that has the capability to shoot long range is not trivial..a guy with more money than time will be far ahead trusting an expert to do that part, and then focusing on the skills aspect rather than the gear aspect.

I’m guessing a lot of GW customers realize they don’t want to spend hours researching the equipment, mess around with reloading, assemble everything correctly, etc. they’d rather pay an expert for that part and then get down to banging steel or whatever.

That guy is probably less likely to be wounding animals at 500 than the “vortex guy” who buys a tacticool scope and Walmart rings and thinks he’s good to go at 600 yards because he watched some YouTube videos and read a “best long range scope on a budget” thread.

 

[BBob]

I’m guessing a lot of GW customers realize they don’t want to spend hours researching the equipment, mess around with reloading, assemble everything correctly, etc. they’d rather pay an expert for that part and then get down to banging steel or whatever.

Aaron pretty much covers that in the podcast.

 

[BCDJR]

Just setting up a system that has the capability to shoot long range is not trivial..a guy with more money than time will be far ahead trusting an expert to do that part, and then focusing on the skills aspect rather than the gear aspect.

I’m guessing a lot of GW customers realize they don’t want to spend hours researching the equipment, mess around with reloading, assemble everything correctly, etc. they’d rather pay an expert for that part and then get down to banging steel or whatever.

That guy is probably less likely to be wounding animals at 500 than the “vortex guy” who buys a tacticool scope and Walmart rings and thinks he’s good to go at 600 yards because he watched some YouTube videos and read a “best long range scope on a budget” thread.

Correct…..you forgot the part about the “ guy” not verifying zero and buying some ammo on sale

 

[Flyjunky]

I was trying to agree with him, my response was not clear.

I was picking up what you were putting down.