Clean Energy Arsenal

[mossyoak52]

what do you base your morality/ethics on? Just so we know.

I'd tell you but then ...... I really havn't got time to hide a body maybe another day

 

[Gutshot007]

I'm a little confused here. Mother Earth in all her goodness hath provided from the lifeblood of her bossoms an all natural gift of oil . Blessings abound and runneth over to provide manna for my old suburban. Exxon 1:1

 

[Yarak]

It’s water. Problem is it currently takes more energy to create hydrogen than you get out of it. That can be mitigated to some extent by using renewable electricity to produce hydrogen from water but the efficiency isn’t very high. Unless there is some new way I’m unaware of, which is quite possible and I’d like to learn more about it. If you could point me to it I’d be appreciative.

There are two arguments as to whether or not producing hydrogen takes more energy than its worth to produce it and it depends on which side you believe
Lets think about this
Every major plant producing electricity whether it be Nuclear, Hydroelectric, Coal or NG uses water
What is one way of producing Hydrogen gas ? Electrolysis is the answer
Here we have two major components already in the same place ready to produce Hydrogen gas
Remember right now there is no viable replacement for petroleum and the main concern is currently the climate due to emissions
The best alternative is to use what we have in place to produce a viable "alternative" fuel until a legitimate replacement is discovered
Batteries, wind and solar are not even a good alternative much less a replacement

 

[Wyobohunter]

There are two arguments as to whether or not producing hydrogen takes more energy than its worth to produce it and it depends on which side you believe
Lets think about this
Every major plant producing electricity whether it be Nuclear, Hydroelectric, Coal or NG uses water
What is one way of producing Hydrogen gas ? Electrolysis is the answer
Here we have two major components already in the same place ready to produce Hydrogen gas
Remember right now there is no viable replacement for petroleum and the main concern is currently the climate due to emissions
The best alternative is to use what we have in place to produce a viable "alternative" fuel until a legitimate replacement is discovered
Batteries, wind and solar are not even a good alternative much less a replacement

You didn’t state the two arguments.
I understand the basics of how hydrogen can be produced. However electrolysis is only about 75% efficient. For it to be viable it would need to be more efficient. Unless we really ramp up our renewable energy production. Then we could accept the inherent inefficiency. Right now we are better off putting that electricity to use as the motive fuel. Think of it in these terms. Use hydrogen to spin turbine generators, use the electricity to break apart the H2O molecule into H and O2. You get about 25% less H than it took to spin the generators. At least that was the case several years ago. I wrote a paper on it in a resource management class in college. My info could be dated as there may have been progress in efficiency that I’m unaware of.

 

[Yarak]

I understand. However electrolysis is only about 75% efficient. For it to be viable it would need to be more efficient. Unless we really ramp up our renewable energy production. Then we could accept the inherent inefficiency. Right now we are better off putting that electricity to use as the motive fuel. At least that was the case several years ago. I wrote a paper on it in a resource management class in college. My info could be dated.

Remember we're talking of only one way to produce Hydrogen gas when there are other ways to join in the mix too
Given the current rate we grow in technology even if your paper was written last year it would be dated now
Look at it this way
With the two main components needed to produce Hydrogen gas being in the same place would make it more viable an alternative than producing components for wind, solar, battery in 20 different plants to be assembled in one place
Just the fuel consumption alone for that leads to a negative on the climate side of things

 

[BjornF16]

I’m old enough to remember President Jimmy Carter coming on TV (all channels covered it) to worn the world about “global cooling” and how we needed to act NOW because of how cold the world was going to be in the year 2000.
You used to be able to find it and a Google search but I think they’re hiding it now. Anybody else remember that? I remember it scaring the hell of me it’s a kid

Ja, I remember it.

It’s one reason I’m so jaded on the global warming/climate change hysteria.

Trivia: what is the most prevalent greenhouse gas?

 

[Wyobohunter]

Remember we're talking of only one way to produce Hydrogen gas when there are other ways to join in the mix too
Given the current rate we grow in technology even if your paper was written last year it would be dated now
Look at it this way
With the two main components needed to produce Hydrogen gas being in the same place would make it more viable an alternative than producing components for wind, solar, battery in 20 different plants to be assembled in one place
Just the fuel consumption alone for that leads to a negative on the climate side of things

That might be true to some extent but you would need to make it more efficient than it is just putting the electricity into the grid for it to be profitable. It has to be profitable to be economically viable. In our system things don’t get done if they don’t make money for someone. If it was currently profitable companies would choose to do it. It takes very little energy input for the amount of BTU you get out of one bbl of light sweet crude. That’s part of why oil companies make so much money. I guarantee that if Exxon could make as much or more money producing hydrogen they’d be all in. Hopefully we learn a better way to power ourselves but I don’t think we started soon enough and the climate change doubting pseudo scientists aren’t helping. Even Chevron admitted it was a problem (internally) but kept it from the public to protect profits.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Ja, I remember it.

It’s one reason I’m so jaded on the global warming/climate change hysteria.

Trivia: what is the most prevalent greenhouse gas?

It’s water. That and what Carter said in the 1970’s don’t change the facts. You and I may not be around to feel the worst of what we are doing but my kids will. I really wish you were right about this but you aren’t. We are starting to feel the impacts in a very real way.

 

[Yarak]

That might be true to some extent but you would need to make it more efficient than just putting the electricity into the grid for it to be profitable. It has to be profitable to be economically viable. If it was currently profitable companies would choose to do it. It takes very little energy input for the amount of BTU you get out of one bbl of light sweet crude. That’s part of why oil companies make so much money. I guarantee that if Exxon could make as much or more money producing hydrogen they’d be all in.

Are we now talking replacement ?
I was under the impression we were discussing alternative
Have you investigated how involved "Exxon" is involved in the production of the three or how many of those components for the three are made from petroleum or petroleum byproducts
The cost of producing the components for the other three make them neither a replacement or alternative
It does however line the pockets of all involved with our tax dollars
As I mentioned earlier.....Solyndra

 

[Wyobohunter]

Are we now talking replacement ?
I was under the impression we were discussing alternative
Have you investigated how involved "Exxon" is involved in the production of the three or how many of those components for the three are made from petroleum or petroleum byproducts
The cost of producing the components for the other three make them neither a replacement or alternative
It does however line the pockets of all involved with our tax dollars
As I mentioned earlier.....Solyndra

Alternative and replacement can be used synonymously. What do you mean by “the three”?

If your primary concern is where our tax dollars are going you should be really mad that the petroleum companies take way more tax welfare than any renewable (or whatever you want to call it… let’s try to not get hung up on semantics) energy research does.

 

[BjornF16]

“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole," said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

So what is the goal of environmental policy?


"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said Edenhofer.

Another Climate Alarmist Admits Real Motive Behind Warming Scare | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Global warming alarmists have effectively sown fright but done a poor job of hiding their real motivation. Another reveals what's driving the climate scare.

www.investors.com

 

[Yarak]

Alternative and replacement can be used synonymously. What do you mean by “the three”?

Wind
Solar
Battery

 

[Wyobohunter]

“One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole," said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

So what is the goal of environmental policy?


"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said Edenhofer.

Another Climate Alarmist Admits Real Motive Behind Warming Scare | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Global warming alarmists have effectively sown fright but done a poor job of hiding their real motivation. Another reveals what's driving the climate scare.

www.investors.com

How about you post the entire speech so it can be read in full context?

 

[Wyobohunter]

Wind
Solar
Battery

I edited my post before you replied. If you are interested there is more to it.

Yes, plastics and other products are made of petroleum. We can recycle plastics. That’s not a new technology. BP has and is doing some work on renewable energy. I couldn’t say if Exxon is. What point are you making?

 

[*zap*]

There is a whole bunch of people who plan to never stop using fossil fuels (and they all have HUGE carbon footprints) who want to force the rest of us to stop using them thru policies that are not sound at all. Debate this all you want to but at least realize that a political agenda drives this issue, not concern for the planet or you/I.

 

[Wyobohunter]

It’s one reason I’m… the most prevalent greenhouse gas…

See what I did there? Is that what you said?

It isn’t.

I’d like to read the full speech instead of an article about it. Maybe he said/meant exactly what the article claims. I’d like to decide that for myself.

 

[cuerro viejo]

There is a pretty big distinction between the alarmists that are interested using climate change to further their politics and some of the actual scientists doing good work. Like most people, I can't stand the alarmist politicial pushers, but there are plenty of good scientists with good data sets to support the

I support the scientists that report the truth. 2500 + acres of eco system bulldozed of all trees, and flora to replaced with solar panel, and high use of herbicide isn’t exactly planet friendly.

Not exactly an eco friendly foot print. Just a couple square miles that now looks and reflect like a lake… until you get close

 

[*zap*]

^ that is a very good observation. I agree 100%. A good common sense argument instead of a lot of mumbo jumbo...

 

[Wyobohunter]

I support the scientists that report the truth. 2500 + acres of eco system bulldozed of all trees, and flora to replaced with solar panel, and high use of herbicide isn’t exactly planet friendly.

Not exactly an eco friendly foot print. Just a couple square miles that now looks and reflect like a lake… until you get close

Agreed. There are better ways and places for these types of projects. When money is the only consideration it can do more harm than good. Doesn’t matter if it’s a well pad or a solar farm.

 

[Yarak]

I edited my post before you replied. If you are interested there is more to it.

Yes, plastics and other products are made of petroleum. We can recycle plastics. That’s not a new technology. BP has and is doing some work on renewable energy. I couldn’t say if Exxon is. What point are you making?

The point I'm making is that no oil company will invest in anything that will hurt the top, middle and bottom line of their main money maker which is petroleum but they will invest in things that use it or byproducts of it