Biden Administration imposes lead bans in 8 F&W areas

[littlerhorner]

Should we bring back the option of lead water pipes? How about lead paint? Lead in gas? It's a free country.

 

[Idaboy]

Should we bring back the option of lead water pipes? How about lead paint? Lead in gas? It's a free country.

That's funny

I know we all get frustrated with government agencies, but at least some try to give us information to understand their stance, and educate ourselves...The Minnesota DNR performed this analysis. We have to use slugs in many areas of MN to deer hunt, but it appears that they found slugs fragment less than some rifle bullets, perhaps due to slower speeds. I found this analysis interesting about the Barnes TSX and the rifle ammo...they propose here NOT to rinse a carcass if you are trying to limit lead.

I learned a lot from this one

Bullet fragmentation study

www.dnr.state.mn.us

https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/wildlife/lead/lead-study-summary.pdf

 

[cuerro viejo]

I think part of the difficulty is that heavy metal toxicity tends to accumulate over time, and so by the time someone has physical manifestation it's a big problem. Lead (Pb) is not found at all in humans and has no biologic function for us ( vs other metals that are important for cellular systems eg zinc, iron, manganese etc). As others have pointed out, it's ethically difficult to perform a randomized blinded trial...one can probably due a cross over trial, but much of the data is going to be observational.

These are just a few examples of what you requested, but there are others

Determining tissue-lead levels in large game mammals harvested with lead bullets: human health concerns - PubMed

Recently, the use of lead isotope ratios has definitively identified lead ammunition as a source of lead exposure for First Nations people, but the isotope ratios for lead pellets and bullets were indistinguishable. Thus, lead-contaminated meat from game harvested with lead bullets may also be...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Chronic Lead Intoxication From Eating Wild-Harvested Game - PubMed

Unsafe blood lead levels can occur from eating game harvested with lead ammunition. Physicians should warn hunting patients of this potential risk and counsel them about the availability of nonlead ammunition alternatives.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

How contaminated with ammunition-derived lead is meat from European small game animals? Assessing and reducing risks to human health - PubMed

Small game animals are generally hunted with lead gunshot which often fragments causing elevated lead concentrations in meat and presenting health risks to frequent consumers and vulnerable groups. We reviewed three decades of European data on lead concentrations in the meat of gamebirds...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I understand all of this, as I have read the same studies, my issue is a blanket regulation brought on by non-relative studies. No body should purposely ingest metallic lead, but in regards to this conversation we are talking #9-#6 pellet or the equivalent in high velocity rifle bullet fragments. First we have to acknowledge that there is a difference in Organic lead and bullets that are metallic alloys. Then we need to determine the time line of how long it will stay in the digestive system, and the absorption rate that corresponds to that digestive time.

I would like to see historical perception proven or disproven due to the limited quantity historical consumed, the form of metallic lead alloys and the limited time in the digestive tract that it is or is dangerous to a highly concerning degree.

Who much smoke pit BBQ do you have to eat before the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon causes cancer?

Im not advocating the ingestion of metallic lead, i just simply want to see where the amount becomes bad.

 

[displacedtexan]

That's funny

I know we all get frustrated with government agencies, but at least some try to give us information to understand their stance, and educate ourselves...

There is a HUGE volume of research and information available about lead and it's impact on wildlife and the environment.

There's also a lot about ingesting it, but that's completely irrelevant to why it's not allowed.

 

[Idaboy]

I understand all of this, as I have read the same studies, my issue is a blanket regulation brought on by non-relative studies. No body should purposely ingest metallic lead, but in regards to this conversation we are talking #9-#6 pellet or the equivalent in high velocity rifle bullet fragments. First we have to acknowledge that there is a difference in Organic lead and bullets that are metallic alloys. Then we need to determine the time line of how long it will stay in the digestive system, and the absorption rate that corresponds to that digestive time.

I would like to see historical perception proven or disproven due to the limited quantity historical consumed, the form of metallic lead alloys and the limited time in the digestive tract that it is or is dangerous to a highly concerning degree.

Who much smoke pit BBQ do you have to eat before the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon causes cancer?

Im not advocating the ingestion of metallic lead, i just simply want to see where the amount becomes bad.

Great points and good questions. Would love to see better studies on the alloys etc. Would also love the BBQ question answered...but in full disclosure, due to my family history I have started to limit BBQ smoked stuff. We grill all the time, but I try to avoid charring stuff like I used to. Sounds like we need more science!

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Great points and good questions. Would love to see better studies on the alloys etc. Would also love the BBQ question answered...but in full disclosure, due to my family history I have started to limit BBQ smoked stuff. We grill all the time, but I try to avoid charring stuff like I used to. Sounds like we need more science!

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you are concerned with the health effects of meat cooked on a fire….maybe go get your testosterone level checked. Come on people.

Go kill large animals with lead bullets. Eat that animal slowly at a rate that provides you 200 to 250 grams of protein a day. Lift heavy weights. Get good sleep. Don’t drink too much or take drugs. Everything will be ok.

 

[sacklunch]

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you are concerned with the health effects of meat cooked on a fire….maybe go get your testosterone level checked. Come on people.

Go kill large animals with lead bullets. Eat that animal slowly at a rate that provides you 200 to 250 grams of protein a day. Lift heavy weights. Get good sleep. Don’t drink too much or take drugs. Everything will be ok.

Or shoot it with a copper bullet and ingest zero toxic substances in your meat.

I find it’s often the dudes with Low-T themselves who feel the need to tell others to get their test levels checked.

 

[gabenzeke]

Or shoot it with a copper bullet and ingest zero toxic substances in your meat.

I find it’s often the dudes with Low-T themselves who feel the need to tell others to get their test levels checked.

Curious how you convince them to get levels tested and then share the results with you?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Curious how you convince them to get levels tested and then share the results with you?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I’ve heard low T also clouds logical thinking.

 

[sacklunch]

Curious how you convince them to get levels tested and then share the results with you?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

You don’t need a test to know a dude has low T. It’s pretty obvious when you look at them

 

[Arthas]

The Biden Administration and these conservation groups are so concerned with eagles that they are building windmills and solar facilities on every public land surface they can find. Yet, we are supposed to believe that this ban is about the saving wildlife.

It's unfortunate this forum and other hunting forums do not allow meaningful conversation about topics like this. We are 7 pages in and not 1 post about where this was coming from and the actual presentation and audience from official sources.

This lead ban will be applied to all federal land with 1 more cycle of this administration. Start drafting your posts about "how could they" now because it's coming.

 

[sacklunch]

The Biden Administration and these conservation groups are so concerned with eagles that they are building windmills and solar facilities on every public land surface they can find. Yet, we are supposed to believe that this ban is about the saving wildlife.

It's unfortunate this forum and other hunting forums do not allow meaningful conversation about topics like this. We are 7 pages in and not 1 post about where this was coming from and the actual presentation and audience from official sources.

This lead ban will be applied to all federal land with 1 more cycle of this administration. Start drafting your posts about "how could they" now because it's coming.

They banned lead for waterfowl years ago…pretty sure the sky didn’t fall. It will this time though…right?

 

[2ski]

Awful lot of assumptions in your reply there. You know what they say.


Edit to address the nonsense about only asking the NSSF for a comment. It helps if you read the whole thing.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Alright. You got me there. With all the stupid ads and shit I thought I was at the end of the article. Didn't see the "read more".

 

[HOT ROD]

I read threads like this and many more on this forum and its no wonder we as a Country are in the shape we are in. To many people want more government in there lives more regulation don't worry its all for the best... Ill keep giving critters lead poison unit our government says I cant anymore or until I run out of lead.

 

[Arthas]

They banned lead for waterfowl years ago…pretty sure the sky didn’t fall. It will this time though…right?

You're right I guess. Waterfowl and hunting in general is at an all time high percentage amongst Americans. I have never heard a single complaint about the effectiveness of steel shot from waterfowl hunters. Besides, its not like there is any difference between shooting tiny shot with lots of surface area directly into water that often times has slightly acidic pH and shooting a bullet at terrestrial game.

Like I said above, the main species of concern cited by the groups are eagles. Eagle populations are booming. If there was dire concern about eagle populations, why the unprecedented push to chop them into pieces with an industrial windmill on every parcel of federal land.

I won't even go into the barrier to entry for poor families that want to hunt but don't want or can't afford the increase in cost.

 

[displacedtexan]

I won't even go into the barrier to entry for poor families that want to hunt but don't want or can't afford the increase in cost.

If a couple of extra dollars for a box of ammo is a barrier, all the other costs are an even bigger barrier.

 

[sacklunch]

You're right I guess. Waterfowl and hunting in general is at an all time high percentage amongst Americans. I have never heard a single complaint about the effectiveness of steel shot from waterfowl hunters. Besides, its not like there is any difference between shooting tiny shot with lots of surface area directly into water that often times has slightly acidic pH and shooting a bullet at terrestrial game.

Like I said above, the main species of concern cited by the groups are eagles. Eagle populations are booming. If there was dire concern about eagle populations, why the unprecedented push to chop them into pieces with an industrial windmill on every parcel of federal land.

I won't even go into the barrier to entry for poor families that want to hunt but don't want or can't afford the increase in cost.

That’s a bit of a red herring areguement. Fairly certain most studies show that while wind turbines are extremely detrimental to some bird populations, most of those are migratory birds. Eagles aren’t migratory and I have yet to see an eagles nest on a wind turbine. Not saying that an eagle hasn’t been killed by a turbine, I’m sure they have, but your argument is a bit silly.

 

[Arthas]

That’s a bit of a red herring areguement. Fairly certain most studies show that while wind turbines are extremely detrimental to some bird populations, most of those are migratory birds. Eagles aren’t migratory and I have yet to see an eagles nest on a wind turbine. Not saying that an eagle hasn’t been killed by a turbine, I’m sure they have, but your argument is a bit silly.

I'm pretty sure you're trolling me. There is extensive documentation including case study regarding eagle mortality associated with windmills.

 

[sacklunch]

I'm pretty sure you're trolling me. There is extensive documentation including case study regarding eagle mortality associated with windmills.

So the majority of birds killed by wind turbines are eagles? That is incorrect.

 

[displacedtexan]

I'm pretty sure you're trolling me. There is extensive documentation including case study regarding eagle mortality associated with windmills.

Got a source?