Biden Administration imposes lead bans in 8 F&W areas

[Arthas]

So the majority of birds killed by wind turbines are eagles? That is incorrect.

Being the majority species is not what matters. Statistical significance in morality ratbat's. A single Golden eagle death or bald eagle death by windmill is generally unlawful and significant. Just as FWS and many anti hunting groups claim about lead ammunition, there statistical significance in eagle deaths from windmills. But you are correct. Windmills kill many avian species in very large numbers than lead ammo does not such as bats. Can you direct me to your posts of outrage condemning those wind projects please.

Got a source?

Sure. Here is the link to the 2 rivers wind project in Wyoming.

EplanningUi

eplanning.blm.gov

This windfarm included 20,000+ acres of federal land development. Please view the environmental assessment. The EA includes reference the danger posed to many avian species including golden eagles which nest in the area. The company doing the project was planning on the unlawful killing of multiple Golden eagles during the life span of the project. Golden eagles are one of the most commonly referenced species when citing the need to ban lead ammunition due to morality among scavneging eagles. Strangely, most of the groups that are the loudest in banning lead ammo didn't submitter comment to save these eagles. Very strange indeed.

Here is a new article about another well documented settlement with a wind company.

Wind developer admits killing 136 bald and golden eagles in $35M settlement

A U.S. wind power developer pleaded guilty to multiple violations of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act after its wind turbine blades allegedly killed more than 135 bald and golden eagles across the country.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I am Not really interested in the commentary of the article. From the article the official information should be fairly easy to find. The fine and eagle deaths are factual.

 

[Arthas]

#1 because you haven't listened or haven't hunted with pre ban hunters.
or
#2 its because the guys shooting lead anyways don't need to complain about the steel.

Fact: steel doesnt kill as well as lead and wounds more. Yes there have been studies on it. No I'm not going to go search for it so I can link it so you wont read it.



They don't live in Texas during the summer. Why are they here in the winter? Where do they go in the summer? If they do it every year isnt that migrating?

I was being sarcastic. I did not mean to offend.

 

[HOT ROD]

That's interesting....what's killing them?

Its the wind mills... It not from lead poisoning...

 

[sacklunch]

I dont care how they are classified. They are considered partially migratory in all scientific circles

The cry more comment was childish. Sorry your argument is unraveling at the seams and you have to stoop to insults. Seems to be your MO though. This time its lead and eagles and not archery equipment.

So you don’t care what the science says as far as their actual classification …but you’ll give some fictitious narrative that some made up “scientific circle” of yours says they are a made-up classification of birds?

And there is no classification for part resident, part migratory…that’s location based migration, not species based. So sorry.

Oh hey, it’s the whiner from the archery thread…never did reach out and post up a round. All talk, seems to be your MO.


Don’t like my tone? Sarcasm offends you? Maybe don’t @me… Simple enough. I can promise you, I’ve never directly replied to a comment you’ve made on anything, unless you’ve directed a comment at me first.

 

[littlerhorner]

I believe they are not listed under the migratory bird treaty because the Fall under the Bald and Golden Eagle treaty act, which is a more restrictive if I recall correctly. Falcons and Hawks fall under the migratory treaty. You need to look into that more than the first thing that pops up under a google search, butI'm no biologist. There are a bunch of agencies that have a bunch of definitions, but eagles certainly do migrate.

Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 (16 U.S.C. 703-712) implements four international conservation treaties that the U.S.

www.fws.gov

Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

The Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act (16 U.S.C.

www.fws.gov

 

[littlerhorner]

Its the wind mills... It not from lead poisoning...

Fairly certain it is both.

 

[Idaboy]

Wind energy......At least we can't blame the lead on the wind mortalities.

https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wsb.1197

 

[Arthas]

So the majority of birds killed by wind turbines are eagles? That is incorrect.

BTW. The 2 rivers wind project in wyoming that I cited per request estimates 8 bald eagle and 133 golden eagle kills over 30 years life of the project. That's 1 project. Golden eagles are one of the primary species cited in banning lead ammo. The Biden Administration has plans for wind mills on millions of acres of federal ground not to mention private. I would like to understand why environmentalists and anti hunters think banning lead ammo is the answer when we are full bore on the windmills. Please help me understand. Thanks.

 

[HOT ROD]

Fairly certain it is both.

Wind mills are killing way more birds than lead poisoning by far... A friend of mine sits in a tower on a wind mill farm... There only job is to watch for federally protected birds getting to close... So I have a pretty good idea how many birds get chopped up my wind mills.....

 

[littlerhorner]

Wind mills are killing way more birds than lead poisoning by far... A friend of mine sits in a tower on a wind mill farm... There only job is to watch for federally protected birds getting to close... So I have a pretty good idea how many birds get chopped up

I never douted for a second will farms kill more eagles and get perferntal treatment. There are a score of things that kill eagles, including lead. I feel that's pretty well established.

It's an discussion over how many eagle deaths are acceptable for the activity. I believe that FWP trading opertunity, which we all want, for reduced Eagle fatalities associated with that oppertunity is fair. I also think it falls short of the heart ache it seems to be causing. Seems like party line garbage to me.

 

[sacklunch]

BTW. The 2 rivers wind project in wyoming that I cited per request estimates 8 bald eagle and 133 golden eagle kills over 30 years life of the project. That's 1 project. Golden eagles are one of the primary species cited in banning lead ammo. The Biden Administration has plans for wind mills on millions of acres of federal ground not to mention private. I would like to understand why environmentalists and anti hunters think banning lead ammo is the answer when we are full bore on the windmills. Please help me understand. Thanks.

So .04% of the golden eagle population has been killed by wind turbines in a 30 year period in Wyoming? What is that .001% per year? Not sure that’s as significant as you thought it was.

Now due lead…

I’m not a wind turbine enthusiast, but the gaslighting has got to stop.

 

[Idaboy]

So .04% of the golden eagle population has been killed by wind turbines in a 30 year period in Wyoming? What is that .001% per year? Not sure that’s as significant as you thought it was.

Now due lead…

I’m not a wind turbine enthusiast, but the gaslighting has got to stop.

 

[Idaboy]

Some perspective, with respect to what other things cause bird mortalities

The trouble with turbines: An ill wind - Nature

With turbines threatening some bird and bat populations, researchers are seeking ways to keep the skies safe for wildlife.

www.nature.com

 

[Reburn]

So you don’t care what the science says as far as their actual classification …but you’ll give some fictitious narrative that some made up “scientific circle” of yours says they are a made-up classification of birds?

And there is no classification for part resident, part migratory…that’s location based migration, not species based. So sorry.

Oh hey, it’s the whiner from the archery thread…never did reach out and post up a round. All talk, seems to be your MO.


Don’t like my tone? Sarcasm offends you? Maybe don’t @me… Simple enough. I can promise you, I’ve never directly replied to a comment you’ve made on anything, unless you’ve directed a comment at me first.

You missed the point on what the bird scientist classify them as. I guess you just believe whatever the government tells you. I could really care less. Simple fact is they fly hundereds of miles for different seasons. Call that what you will.

I never did need to post up a round. I never claimed how good I was. I simply said there was a couple guys that are actually nationally ranked. They don’t have delusions that they are good, they actually are good.

You would need to work much harder to offend me. I don’t think you’re capable. I will keep replying if you keep giving incorrect information.

 

[Idaboy]

BTW. The 2 rivers wind project in wyoming that I cited per request estimates 8 bald eagle and 133 golden eagle kills over 30 years life of the project. That's 1 project. Golden eagles are one of the primary species cited in banning lead ammo. The Biden Administration has plans for wind mills on millions of acres of federal ground not to mention private. I would like to understand why environmentalists and anti hunters think banning lead ammo is the answer when we are full bore on the windmills. Please help me understand. Thanks.

^^^It's a great point. Having better transparency or taking a step back with some comparison would be helpful, when an administration puts forth a policy or program....I am not sure that anyone, on either side of the debate, feels any one policy is "the answer". But some groups feel the need to attempt some intervention.

To address your question, I wouldn't consider myself an "environmentalist", but would say I am pro conservation. I am a hunter. but in general, I don't have an issue with restrictions on lead ammo on wildlife refuges, as I don't feel threatened by that type of policy. It used to be RARE to see an eagle where I grew up and now we see them all the time, which I attribute to pro conservation policy.....I don't feel I need to contribute to dead eagles by shooting lead, but fully acknowledge my cell phone towers probably cause more bird problems....I just dont think it has to be an "all in" across ever component of my life, I pick my battles where I feel I can help pitch in......My guess is money, is driving some decisions with clean energy, and some groups decide a cost of birds is worth whatever cost/benefit is derived from the clean energy switch,so they push for it. I don't really feel we are "full bore" wind, but I probably would if they put one in my backyard. We are likely going to need many types of energy (fossil, clean, nuclear) and likely technology and economic factors will make the decision for us. I get more concerned about lack of access, than restrictions methods on how I hunt or fish...just my 2 cents

 

[Arthas]

Qp

So .04% of the golden eagle population has been killed by wind turbines in a 30 year period in Wyoming? What is that .001% per year? Not sure that’s as significant as you thought it was.

Now due lead…

I’m not a wind turbine enthusiast, but the gaslighting has got to stop.

you do lead. Provide your sources of information please for your eagle numbers and how you arrived at your %s above.

 

[Arthas]

^^^It's a great point. Having better transparency or taking a step back with some comparison would be helpful, when an administration puts forth a policy or program....I am not sure that anyone, on either side of the debate, feels any one policy is "the answer". But some groups feel the need to attempt some intervention.

To address your question, I wouldn't consider myself an "environmentalist", but would say I am pro conservation. I am a hunter. but in general, I don't have an issue with restrictions on lead ammo on wildlife refuges, as I don't feel threatened by that type of policy. It used to be RARE to see an eagle where I grew up and now we see them all the time, which I attribute to pro conservation policy.....I don't feel I need to contribute to dead eagles by shooting lead, but fully acknowledge my cell phone towers probably cause more bird problems....I just dont think it has to be an "all in" across ever component of my life, I pick my battles where I feel I can help pitch in......My guess is money, is driving some decisions with clean energy, and some groups decide a cost of birds is worth whatever cost/benefit is derived from the clean energy switch,so they push for it. I don't really feel we are "full bore" wind, but I probably would if they put one in my backyard. We are likely going to need many types of energy (fossil, clean, nuclear) and likely technology and economic factors will make the decision for us. I get more concerned about lack of access, than restrictions methods on how I hunt or fish...just my 2 cents

What do you consider full bore if 0 net carbon by 2050 as set by this administration is not full bore. That's over 25 gigaw of renewable energy from federal land by 2025 per admin goals.

 

[Idaboy]

What do you consider full bore if 0 net carbon by 2050 as set by this administration is not full bore. That's over 25 gigaw of renewable energy from federal land by 2025 per admin goals.

The administration does seem very aggressive with a shift in energy policy, and I suspect every 4-8 yrs with various administrations we will have a different energy policy. It's going to take energy companies and technology, and not just the government, to really bend the curve if those goals are to be met....I don't see gas stations going away anytime soon. If they shut off the gas pumps today, and forced immediate conversion of plants, that would strike me as "full bore", but I am not concerned about something like that. This type of policy likely leads to uncertainty within the energy industry, and industry never likes uncertainty......But 25- 30 yrs is a long time, and I will likely be near the end my fishin trip when 2050 rolls in

 

[sacklunch]

Qp


you do lead. Provide your sources of information please for your eagle numbers and how you arrived at your %s above.

My sources…USFW golden eagle populations numbers.

Math is hard.

 

[sacklunch]

You missed the point on what the bird scientist classify them as. I guess you just believe whatever the government tells you. I could really care less. Simple fact is they fly hundereds of miles for different seasons. Call that what you will.

A “bird scientist”? Is that a technical term or just another one you made up. Maybe you mean an ornithologist.

I just believe whatever the government tells me? You mean like the USFW who employs ‘ornithologists’ to study eagles…yep, you got me there, I take their word for it.

Simple fact is ‘they’ don’t, some do. And if we’re talking golden eagles, then not just some, but only some juveniles. Adult holders don’t migrate and only some juvenile holds a migrate. So again, hate to burst your bubble and your made up facts and terms, but nope, still not a migratory species.