BHA seems “all-in” with Biden

[D S 319]

No nuclear energy being mentioned just the worst ones lol!

 

[Newtosavage]

Your condescension game today is strong to quite strong.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

 

[fwafwow]

Tell me how I'm wrong.

I have no idea if you are right or wrong, but you can be either without being so condescending

 

[Newtosavage]

I have no idea if you are right or wrong, but you can be either without being so condescending

but then a lifetime of crafting the art of condescension would be wasted, so...

 

[Newtosavage]

First let me separate my dislike for BHA from the back and forth discussion you and I had/are having. I understand that you are not their spokes person or accountant. I was under the impression you were a member and I was seeking your opinion. I appreciate your response. As far as disliking them because they are successful or thought of it first is not the case, I assure you. There are any number of organizations that can be said about. They are a lobbying group and in general I am inclined to not like lobbying groups until they can prove otherwise and I am not sure there is 1 out there that I am fond of. Please do not feel like I am attacking you with my response. I am not. I am explaining my dislike of what BHA has done.

I do agree with you on 2 things in your last couple posts:

1. I agree the passage of the BIL and IRA being a windfall for grant money flowing into BHA coffers. So its not as simple as not joining BHA imo. As a "conservation" lobbying group, they are getting my tax dollars through publicly funded grants.

2. I agree conservation of small species are as important to consider as the large "money makers". You rightly point out the legacy of conservation left to us by people like Leopold. But I am old enough to remember when the statue of Teddy Roosevelt was removed from in front of the NY Museum of Natural History. Not only did BHA and their members not speak out about it and fight for it to remain , no, BHA and its members, and allies like Randy Newberg endorsed the ideological movement that was doing the removal. That same ideological movement has and will continue to push for Leopold and Roosevelt to be categorized and demonized as racist colonizers. Now ironically, the same ideological movement that BHA endorsed when that statue was removed is coming for the North American Model of Conservation starting with WA, then CO and Oregon, and then other states.

to the broader point.

As far as conservation goes, BHA is only interested in conservation and public access when it is on the terms of their political allies. Its plain for everyone to see. BHA is in the business of funneling tax dollars into their own pockets in the form of grants. Whether that ends up helping public lands is simply a biproduct of me as a public land owner having mutual interests as BHA political buddies. The influx of grants after lobbying for the IRA and BIL is a prime example. As far as evidence, maybe the granting agencies should be made public instead of remaining confidential on BHA's 990.



Its the lower 48 also. The Biden Administration has committed 20 million acres of my public land to go under long term renewable development. I will never get to hunt or enjoy that land because it will be commercialized for energy development for multi generations. Combined with the 26 million or whatever it is in AK that william schmaltz referenced, thats almost 50 million acres (and counting) of public land out of reach for hunters under the administration that Land Tawney and BHA wanted. BHA cant even find the time to write a single press release condemning any of it. Maybe they forgot to budget some of that BIL and IRA grant money for those press releases. Or maybe they are just embarrassed since BHA and specifically Land Tawney endorsed renewables on public land in 2019. I thought they were committed to fighting for public land owners. I must have read 2 dozen press releases from BHA about how bad energy development of public land was under the Trump administration.

Here is another plain as day example, I must have read a half dozen BHA press releases about how bad it was that Trump was going allow drilling the Arctic refuge. Then Biden green lit drilling in the refuge, not a single article condemning the Biden Admin's decision to open it. And we have not even touched on the record setting acreage offshore and all those dead wright whales around the wind mills there.


Signed

-Public Land Owner

It appears as though you have a much larger axe to grind than just BHA.

If it is in fact Lobbyists in general that you hate, convince us all by explaining your hatred for the NRA.

And where on earth are you getting 20M ac that nobody will ever get to hunt? Source please so we can all follow your logic.

 

[fwafwow]

but then a lifetime of crafting the art of condescension would be wasted, so...

True dat

 

[Newtosavage]

nobody likes the NRA bc of Wayne La Pierre. The same exact argument that I am making for BHA. The leader corrupting the organizations mission.

Solar Energy | Bureau of Land Management

Solar Energy Climate change concerns, state renewable energy portfolio standards, investment tax credits, technological advances and decreasing equipment costs are drivers of interest in utility-scale solar energy development on public lands. As a result, we expect that private companies will...

www.blm.gov

"Across the 245 million acres of public land it manages, the BLM has prioritized a combined total of roughly 870,000 acres for solar energy development within its land use plans. ....... In addition to the prioritized areas, the BLM maintains more than 19 million additional acres as open for potential solar development, subject to a variance process."

So far we've learned that 1) you think "nobody" likes the NRA and 2) you think 20M acres that BLM has identified as available for "potential" solar development will be off limits to you at some point during your hunting career? Do we have that right?

 

[Bump79]

Unfortunately, as western hunters no current political affiliation fits us. We're a mixed bag - wanting massive swaths of publicly funded lands to hunt while also wanting individual liberties to own property without massive tax burdens. Republicans and Libertarian's aren't big fans of federal public lands. Democrats are theoretically but have a big anti-hunting coalition within their ranks.

Honestly - I'm glad BHA exists as more democrat leaning people need outreach about what we do. They don't have to do it your way or the highway. They seem effective and I'm happy they can work without outfits like Patagonia to get stuff done where our interests overlap. We need a broad coalition to keep our rights as hunters. What we don't want it to have hunting be a battleground for the culture war.

 

[Newtosavage]

You told someone a couple posts back to go read Leopold and now "its just a few solar panels." Yea, im worried that developmemt might impact my ability to use my public land. And my kids kids. You under stand that opening an area for potential development is another way of saying accepting permits now? And in BLMs case they have been ORDERED by the Biden Admininstration to develop these renewables on public land with solar and wind.

Very familiar with this in fact, and nowhere did I say "it's just a few solar panels." But if you add up all the acreage covered by the 10 largest solar arrays, you still get less than 50k acres. So I'm not exactly sure how you jump from there to 20M, even in your kid's lifetimes.

You (like most folks) misunderstand what these "orders" and the term "available" actually mean in this context, and from the surface it appears you are using them either to scare yourself or more deliberately for fear mongering for political purposes, or both. If anything has been proven in the past four decades, it's that people who identify as conservative are easily motivated by scare tactics.

 

[Okhotnik]

Our current Secretary of the Interior, which BHA is absolutely in LOVE with has taken away more hunting opportunity from you just in Alaska than all anti-hunting groups have in all the lower 48 combined over the last two years. And there's no sign of it slowing down.

As planned by BHA. Good luck getting BHA to reveal who their real funding comes from.

 

[Newtosavage]

As planned by BHA. Good luck getting BHA to reveal who their real funding comes from.

Let's see if I understand this logic... Create an organization by and for hunters and anglers who are not just casual hunters and anglers but who are backcountry focused which by definition means they are pretty well informed and dedicated. Then, somehow convince all those hunter and angler members, most of whom have a lot of experience in the western backcountry, to volunteer their time to oppose hunting.

Seems legit.

 

[Newtosavage]

Rofl. Fear monger for political political purposes. You write this in a bha thread. How ironic. I guess we will wait watch.

Like I said from the outset, you have an agenda against BHA and that is obvious. You were never interested in the facts to begin with.

 

[CJ19]

Like I said from the outset, you have an agenda against BHA and that is obvious. You were never interested in the facts to begin with.

I am trying to remain very polite. But please by all means continue your condescending tone. Enlighten us on how many acres of public land development should we expect over the next 10 years bc the numbers you generated are not even reflective what BLM has in house under review at this time. What is your back ground? I would assume you have an extensive background in conservation amd resource management given your impressive knowledge of energy developmemt. I bet you are a licensed engineer arent you.

So let me ask the other hunters here. How excited are you to hunt under windmills or next to a solar array, transmission line, or substation out in your favorite mule deer or antelope range. Are you excite to look over the 4000 acres of glistening panels or do you think the impact area is bigger than just the exact acreage of the panels that Mr. Newtosavage is calculating. We only want facts now.

 

[BBob]

How excited are you to hunt under windmills or next to a solar array, transmission line, or substation out in your favorite mule deer or antelope range.

Not at all. We already have lots of that blight that's been popping up over the last 20 years. We've lived with the existing transmission lines from the dams for far longer but I suspect those will have to multiply greatly for all those proposed towers and arrays. Save the planet they say but wreck it while doing so. The hucksters in charge care not a whit about saving the planet.

 

[Newtosavage]

I am trying to remain very polite. But please by all means continue your condescending tone. Enlighten us on how many acres of public land development should we expect over the next 10 years bc the numbers you generated are not even reflective what BLM has in house under review at this time. What is your back ground? I would assume you have an extensive background in conservation amd resource management given your impressive knowledge of energy developmemt. I bet you are a licensed engineer arent you.

So let me ask the other hunters here. How excited are you to hunt under windmills or next to a solar array, transmission line, or substation out in your favorite mule deer or antelope range. Are you excite to look over the 4000 acres of glistening panels or do you think the impact area is bigger than just the exact acreage of the panels that Mr. Newtosavage is calculating. We only want facts now.

my level of condescension is jealous of your level of sarcasm. But I promise to try harder.

At least one of your assumptions is correct though. Extra points for that one. I've actually spent decades working to keep private ranchlands from becoming solar arrays and wind farms but don't let that get in the way of your tantrum.

I think friend you need to calm down and understand who your allies are in this war against renewables on public lands. Nobody that I know "likes" the sight of windmills or solar arrays. For decades I drove by the otherwise pristine desert valleys of SW New Mexico and SE Arizona and dreamed of a world where those valleys didn't contain pecan and pistachio farms irrigated by water that belonged in the Colorado River and ultimately the Gulf of California. I drive through the farmlands of the midwest and often wonder what a sea of bluestem, switchgrass and gramma might have once looked like. You see, I've spent a lifetime trying to make a difference where I am, when I can, with whatever I have. Never once did I think I would accomplish that by throwing a fit on a discussion forum.

So, hate them if you want, but organizations like BHA, and before them the Issac Walton League and The Nature Conservancy and before them Audubon have been putting their money (and others that they can convince to help) where their mouth is. You don't have to agree with their politics or even their priorities, but at least they are trying. I'm sure there is an organization out there that fits your political leanings and your priorities that could use you as a member, and use your membership dollars. Go find them, join and volunteer and maybe spend less time on these forums complaining. Because actions are what matter, not words.

 

[fwafwow]

my level of condescension is jealous of your level of sarcasm. But I promise to try harder.

At least one of your assumptions is correct though. Extra points for that one. I've actually spent decades working to keep private ranchlands from becoming solar arrays and wind farms but don't let that get in the way of your tantrum.

I think friend you need to calm down and understand who your allies are in this war against renewables on public lands. Nobody that I know "likes" the sight of windmills or solar arrays. For decades I drove by the otherwise pristine desert valleys of SW New Mexico and SE Arizona and dreamed of a world where those valleys didn't contain pecan and pistachio farms irrigated by water that belonged in the Colorado River and ultimately the Gulf of California. I drive through the farmlands of the midwest and often wonder what a sea of bluestem, switchgrass and gramma might have once looked like. You see, I've spent a lifetime trying to make a difference where I am, when I can, with whatever I have. Never once did I think I would accomplish that by throwing a fit on a discussion forum.

So, hate them if you want, but organizations like BHA, and before them the Issac Walton League and The Nature Conservancy and before them Audubon have been putting their money (and others that they can convince to help) where their mouth is. You don't have to agree with their politics or even their priorities, but at least they are trying. I'm sure there is an organization out there that fits your political leanings and your priorities that could use you as a member, and use your membership dollars. Go find them, join and volunteer and maybe spend less time on these forums complaining. Because actions are what matter, not words.

I don’t have a dog in this fight - I’m too uninformed and I admit it. But you are projecting. He didn’t throw a tantrum and gave a response to your points without hyperbole, condescension or insults (“read a book sometime”). I have to give you props though, you are consistent in your tone.

What say you?

(Rhetorical question.)

 

[Newtosavage]

I don’t have a dog in this fight - I’m too uninformed and I admit it. But you are projecting. He didn’t throw a tantrum and gave a response to your points without hyperbole, condescension or insults (“read a book sometime”). I have to give you props though, you are consistent in your tone.

What say you?

(Rhetorical question.)

"read a book" wasn't an insult. It was advice. What's a guy gotta do to be helpful around here.

 

[william schmaltz]

Interested in hearing some examples. TIA

A few quick examples:

GMU23 caribou 8 million acres federal lands CLOSED to R and NR hunters
GMU23 moose 20 million acres federal lands CLOSED to R and NR hunters
GMU24A and 26B sheep 1.5 million acres federal lands CLOSED to R and NR hunters
Yukon Charley sheep CLOSED to R and NR hunters

There are a half dozen others that will be voted on this winter including extensions for the ones mentioned above. In addition, the DOI is working on reverting back to the Obama-era rule to ban bear baiting in the Kenai Refuge (2 million acres). Brown bears are like rats in there and impossible to hunt in the lowland and thick environment. Every single one of the meetings for these closures included comments and presentations from state biologists with comprehensive facts and figures. The state game agencies have strongly opposed every single one but in the end, our current Secretary of the Interior and her DOI have overstepped and closed the land to hunters.

All closures were pushed through by yielding the tyrannical hammer of the Federal Subsistence Board. The board is made up of 3 public members that are appointed by the Secretary of the Interior (almost always vote to restrict) as well as one member each from the Bureau of Indian Affairs (DOI), Bureau of Land Management (DOI), National Park Service (DOI), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (DOI), and the U.S. Forest Service (USDA). BIA, BLM, NPS, and USFWS vote at the discretion of whoever the Secretary of the Interior is at the time. As you can imagine, science and conservation are never the driving force of those decisions.

I see an argument here with comparison of people defending NRA and BHA. I'm the opposite of a fan of Trump and don't really care for the NRA; but at least when Trump overstepped his authority on gun laws, the NRA (who endorsed Trump) had the stones to stand up and condemn him. I don't think it's too much to ask from BHA and their members to do the same with some of these tyrannical politicians they endorsed who are walking all over our hunting opportunities contrary to what the science and wildlife experts suggest.

 

[svivian]

I don’t have a dog in this fight - I’m too uninformed and I admit it. But you are projecting. He didn’t throw a tantrum and gave a response to your points without hyperbole, condescension or insults (“read a book sometime”). I have to give you props though, you are consistent in your tone.

What say you?

(Rhetorical question.)

Dont feed the troll.... he lives for these kinds of threads

 

[Newtosavage]

Dont feed the troll.... he lives for these kinds of threads

You give trolls far too much credit. Don't take your eye off the ball though. This thread has a topic friend.