A man, a wolf, and stupid in public

[3325]

Have yall ever seen what a wolf does to an Elk?

Yes, and a cougar and a Grizzly.

I also saw a high bred colt just a few days old that had been stomped so bad by a mule that it had to be shot. But I don’t believe that justifies toying with a wounded mule.

I believe in killing wolves in the predator zone, and in having a wolf hunting season in the trophy zone. But do what you do as cleanly as possible and don’t toy with a wounded animal.

I don’t believe “whataboutism” is justification.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Evidently, some know just where we should all draw the line, and this should be the hard and fast rule for everyone. Now, please make a ruling on bullfighting, hound hunting, fox hunting, rodeo, dog racing, falconry, long range hunting, spear hunting, fishing with live bait, trapping, etc.

I am glad for the brave folks willing to police our morals involving animal cruelty.

 

[RMM]

Evidently, some know just where we should all draw the line, and this should be the hard and fast rule for everyone. Now, please make a ruling on bullfighting, hound hunting, fox hunting, rodeo, dog racing, falconry, long range hunting, spear hunting, fishing with live bait, trapping, etc.

I am glad for the brave folks willing to police our morals involving animal cruelty.

If you can't see a difference between all of the things listed above and what the guilty party did, then I'm afraid we're never going to find any common ground.

 

[3325]

Related article: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/0...yqU7Lqc5PXmEg6gwfpd6Yi7L2HBY299qY2s0-dJI415_4

 

[JBS]

I hope the consequences for this idiot are severe. Beav, I do see the correlation with fishing with live bait. I also think that social acceptance has to play a role in how hunters and trappers conduct themselves.

 

[IdahoBeav]

If you can't see a difference between all of the things listed above and what the guilty party did, then I'm afraid we're never going to find any common ground.

Really, there's a clear moral line that this guy with the wolf crossed, and it is beyond all of the other activities I listed? I am slightly interested in an explanation of it from you, but more importantly is that it is all very subjective, and a significant number of people believe that activities you participate in are cruel.

 

[Geewhiz]

If you think that’s animal cruelty wait until you see a pack of wolves rip the fetus out of a cow elk, eat it in front of her, and leave her to die.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Really, there's a clear moral line that this guy with the wolf crossed, and it is beyond all of the other activities I listed? I am slightly interested in an explanation of it from you, but more importantly is that it is all very subjective, and a significant number of people believe that activities you participate in are cruel.

Well, what he allegedly did is illegal so there is that…

 

[RMM]

Really, there's a clear moral line that this guy with the wolf crossed, and it is beyond all of the other activities I listed? I am slightly interested in an explanation of it from you, but more importantly, is that it is all very subjective, and a significant number of people believe that activities you participate in are cruel.

I absolutely believe there's a clear line crossed. None of these other activities involve running an animal down on a snowmobile, "disabling it", then effectively torturing it before killing it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a wolf lover or a fan of the reintroduction. But, as a hunter I believe if you're going to kill an animal, you do it as quickly and humanely as possible.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I absolutely believe there's a clear line crossed. None of these other activities involve running an animal down on a snowmobile, "disabling it", then effectively torturing it before killing it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a wolf lover or a fan of the reintroduction. But, as a hunter I believe if you're going to kill an animal, you do it as quickly and humanely as possible.

Fox hunting and hound hunting both involve running an animal down, torturing it, and killing it. Bullfighting is right there with it.

With the normal hunting that you and I do, the intent is one thing, and the result can be another. Everyone that has hunted long enough has at least one experience where an animal harvest was not quick and humane.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Fox hunting and hound hunting both involve running an animal down, torturing it, and killing it.

How is treeing/baying an animal with hounds torture?

 

[RMM]

Fox hunting and hound hunting both involve running an animal down, torturing it, and killing it. Bullfighting is right there with it.

With the normal hunting that you and I do, the intent is one thing, and the result can be another. Everyone that has hunted long enough has at least one experience where an animal harvest was not quick and humane.

Where does fox hunting take place nowadays? I wasn't aware it was still a thing. Hound hunting isn't torturous in my opinion. They kill the bayed animal with a well placed shot.

As far as your second paragraph, the main differentiation between your point and the case in question is intent. We never intend to cause an animal undue suffering. Sure, mistakes can and do happen. But this dude clearly wanted to torment the animal before killing it.

 

[IdahoBeav]

How is treeing/baying an animal with hounds torture?

Forcing an animal to run for miles and tangle with dogs, the latter depends on the animal species and often doesn't happen, but I have seen it.

To be clear, I think hound hunting is great. I'm just pointing out that the morals on animal cruelty are not clear or settled.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Forcing an animal to run for miles and tangle with dogs, the latter depends on the animal species and often doesn't happen, but I have seen it.

To be clear, I think hound hunting is great. I'm just pointing out that the morals on animal cruelty are not clear or settled.

It’s a false equivalence. Hound hunting is considered fair chase and is largely a legal practice. It is not torture. I’ve seen cats sleeping in a tree while hounds are below them. Nor is the pursuit itself torture. Pursuit by other animals is part of nature.

Holding a live wolf captive in Wyoming is illegal. Transporting it for enjoyment and social entertainment is illegal, and flies in the face of making a quick, clean, and ethical kill.

If a rancher had a depredation permit and chose to shoot an elk in the hip don’t was immobile and disabled, then left it for a period of time so they could show people, would that be okay?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

If a rancher had a depredation permit and chose to shoot an elk in the hip don’t was immobile and disabled, then left it for a period of time so they could show people, would that be okay?

This is more like hitting an Elk with your vehicle, then allowing it to lay there while you call wildlife/gw to approve shooting it, no?

I'm not a fan of any of this stuff, but haven't read anything that amounts to torture yet. Some would argue that trapping is torture by these same criteria, some would argue that catching hogs with dogs here in Texas is torture by similar criteria.

 

[dlee56]

Evidently, some know just where we should all draw the line, and this should be the hard and fast rule for everyone. Now, please make a ruling on bullfighting, hound hunting, fox hunting, rodeo, dog racing, falconry, long range hunting, spear hunting, fishing with live bait, trapping, etc.

I am glad for the brave folks willing to police our morals involving animal cruelty.

You know what they say: I can’t define what it is but I know it when I see it.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I'm not a fan of any of this stuff, but haven't read anything that amounts to torture yet

I’m not advocating it’s torture either. It’s illegal and certainly stupid, and doesn’t reflect well on the rest of us. Beyond that, I’m out.

 

[IdahoBeav]

It’s a false equivalence. Hound hunting is considered fair chase and is largely a legal practice. It is not torture. I’ve seen cats sleeping in a tree while hounds are below them. Nor is the pursuit itself torture. Pursuit by other animals is part of nature.

Holding a live wolf captive in Wyoming is illegal. Transporting it for enjoyment and social entertainment is illegal, and flies in the face of making a quick, clean, and ethical kill.

If a rancher had a depredation permit and chose to shoot an elk in the hip don’t was immobile and disabled, then left it for a period of time so they could show people, would that be okay?

You're still using one set of morals and ignoring the subjectivity. As for the law, hound hunting is illegal in several states. The law and morality are also two different things.

As for wounding the cow, there is no legal means to prevent such a thing. I don't think it's okay, but what I think is one thing and what others think is another. Therefore, it is not logical to claim a clear boundary on what is and is not okay.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I’m not advocating it’s torture either. It’s illegal and certainly stupid, and doesn’t reflect well on the rest of us. Beyond that, I’m out.

I mean, they wrote him a ticket so what's there to complain about then?

I like quick clean kills or leave them alone personally, this guy was punished so it seems fair.

 

[dlee56]

This is more like hitting an Elk with your vehicle, then allowing it to lay there while you call wildlife/gw to approve shooting it, no?

I'm not a fan of any of this stuff, but haven't read anything that amounts to torture yet. Some would argue that trapping is torture by these same criteria, some would argue that catching hogs with dogs here in Texas is torture by similar criteria.

It all boils down to intent. There are some sick psycho’s that get a kick out of injuring animals intentionally, but that to me isn’t the same as a guy who accidentally makes a bad shot or accidentally hit an elk and is trying to handle it quickly and legally.