6.5 Creedmoor Penetration

[Formidilosus]

The problem with heavy bullets in the Creed at least for hunting is the low velocity they produce.

When you are only starting in the low to mid 2700fps range, they run out of steam and ability to expand reliably at distance.

For target shooting which is what the Creed was designed for expansion/fragmentation doesn’t matter.


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You have no idea how this works, do you?

 

[JGRaider]

With a muzzle velocity of 2685 the 147 eldm doesn't hit 1800 fps until 775

How much more do you need?
And how much further are you getting with the lighter bullet?

Agree. Since 95%+ of animals are killed under 300 yds, ballistics at 500+ are pretty much a moot point. I'll sure take a swing at a pig though at that distance and much further.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The problem with heavy bullets in the Creed at least for hunting is the low velocity they produce.

When you are only starting in the low to mid 2700fps range, they run out of steam and ability to expand reliably at distance.

For target shooting which is what the Creed was designed for expansion/fragmentation doesn’t matter.


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Ummmm??? Yeah, no.

 

[Mike D Texas]

You have no idea how this works, do you?

Sure, think what you want Form.


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[Mike D Texas]

With a muzzle velocity of 2685 the 147 eldm doesn't hit 1800 fps until 775

How much more do you need?
And how much further are you getting with the lighter bullet?

I don’t use 1800fps as my minimum velocity. I’ve seen too many bullets not reliably expand below 2000, so I use 2000 as my personal minimum. You do whatever you are comfortable with.

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[Formidilosus]

Sure, think what you want Form.


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I’m not thinking anything.


Using Hornady load data, max for each, 5k DA.

130gr ELD-M at 2,900fps MV hits 2,000fps impact at 665 yards. The 140gr ELD-M at 2,850fps MV, hits 2,000fps at 735 yards. That’s a 70 yard advantage in “steam and ability to expand reliably at distance” for the heavier, slower higher BC bullet.

Additionally the 140gr ELD-M matches the impact velocity of the 130gr ELD-M at 235 yards, and surpasses it from that point on. It also has measurably less wind drift at all ranges.
This holds regardless of bullet used as I used one of the highest BC “light” bullets available. So unless your version of “better” is sub 235 yards, what you wrote is factually incorrect.


130gr ELD-M





140gr ELD-M

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Facts are neat.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I’m not thinking anything.


Using Hornady load data, max for each, 5k DA.

130gr ELD-M at 2,900fps MV hits 2,000fps impact at 665 yards. The 140gr ELD-M at 2,850fps MV, hits 2,000fps at 735 yards. That’s a 70 yard advantage in “steam and ability to expand reliably at distance” for the heavier, slower higher BC bullet.

Additionally the 140gr ELD-M matches the impact velocity of the 130gr ELD-M at 235 yards, and surpasses it from that point on. It also has measurably less wind drift at all ranges.
This holds regardless of bullet used as I used one of the highest BC “light” bullets available. So unless your version of “better” is sub 235 yards, what you wrote is factually incorrect.


130gr ELD-M
View attachment 631033




140gr ELD-M
View attachment 631034

There’s a whopping 80fps difference at 700 per your chart. Maybe 140 is the sweet spot for the CM. I don’t shoot one so I can’t say. I just know that my buddy shooting 6.5CM with 143 ELDX at 2730 is down to 1750 at 700 yards, and this is verified drops.

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[Mike D Texas]

Facts are neat.

Yep, they sure are. And it seems everybody’s “facts” are different.


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[Choupique]

Shouldn't have penetration issues with a 6.5. I've used 6.5x55 for whitetail for my entire life and have only recovered one bullet, a 139 gr PPU soft point that hit the shoulder from 35ish yards. Total trash bullet and the other 5 or 6 of those that I killed deer with all performed well.

I've had fantastic luck with the 155gr lapua mega on whitetails lately. Not a sexy high BC affair by any stretch but it does what I like well, opens up reliably and exits very reliably without making jello out of the whole front half of deer.

I like that the 6.5's don't require anything fancy to work really well on whitetails. It's a long javelin of a bullet.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Yep, they sure are. And it seems everybody’s “facts” are different.


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Post your ballistic data up, I'm curious why your 6.5 is running out of steam so early.

Edit* I didn't see the screenshot posted above.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I don’t use 1800fps as my minimum velocity. I’ve seen too many bullets not reliably expand below 2000, so I use 2000 as my personal minimum. You do whatever you are comfortable with.

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You still disproved yourself.
Even if you want to use 2000 fps the 147 out does what you posted by 100 yards.

So your original argument that the heavier bullets meet minimum opening velocity sooner is absolutely wrong. At least in this case of these 2 bullets.

I think you need to research BC and Min opening velocity of different types of bullets.

 

[Unckebob]

The problem with heavy bullets in the Creed at least for hunting is the low velocity they produce.

When you are only starting in the low to mid 2700fps range, they run out of steam and ability to expand reliably at distance.

For target shooting which is what the Creed was designed for expansion/fragmentation doesn’t matter.


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143g Hornady Factory Precision Hunter Ammo (ELDx) is going 2000fps and retains 1,300 ft/lbs of energy out to 500 yards. While that is borderline for Elk (hence the 6.5 PRC), it is absolutely fine for medium game.

2000fps is well above the minimum velocity for expansion for the ELDx and 1200 ft lbs of energy is more than enough for a whitetail deer.

While I personally don't take game > 300 yards, bullets like the 143g ELD-x and the 140g Nosler BT are a bad day for a whitetail .

As to @bliner question on penetration. Bonded bullets (Accubond) and monometal bullets are the answer if you want maximum penetration for Elk. Just remember, the 6.5cm is not a long range cartridge for big game.

 

[BRTreedogs]

143g Hornady Factory Precision Hunter Ammo (ELDx) is going 2000fps and retains 1,300 ft/lbs of energy out to 500 yards. While that is borderline for Elk (hence the 6.5 PRC), it is absolutely fine for medium game.

2000fps is well above the minimum velocity for expansion for the ELDx and 1200 ft lbs of energy is more than enough for a whitetail deer.

While I personally don't take game > 300 yards, bullets like the 143g ELD-x and the 140g Nosler BT are a bad day for a whitetail .

As to @bliner question on penetration. Bonded bullets (Accubond) and monometal bullets are the answer if you want maximum penetration for Elk. Just remember, the 6.5cm is not a long range cartridge for big game.

Just remember, the 6.5cm is not a long range cartridge for big game.

This is your OPINION and not fact.

Maybe got check out the 223 and 6.5 for killing threads.

Also what everyone considers long range is different.

It appears you consider 500 long.
I consider 500 mid range.

 

[Mike D Texas]

You still disproved yourself.
Even if you want to use 2000 fps the 147 out does what you posted by 100 yards.

So your original argument that the heavier bullets meet minimum opening velocity sooner is absolutely wrong. At least in this case of these 2 bullets.

I think you need to research BC and Min opening velocity of different types of bullets.
View attachment 631102

Im not following what you are talking about exceeding what I posted by 100 yards.

I don’t recall posting a distance, just velocity.

I’ve been shooting a 6.5 caliber rifle since 1998 (260 REM and now 260AI). I’m aware of what they do well and don’t do well. I’m also aware of their limitations.

Regarding your comment on researching BC and minimum velocity, I don’t give a flip about what someone says on the internet or in a book. I’m going off real world results based on personal experience.


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[jimh406]

Funny thread … OP says does the penetration surprise you. Several say he needs less penetration … huh?

In any case, penetration is a function of bullet design all else being equal. There are several bullets known for penetration including the Nosler Partition and most solid copper offerings.

Likewise, there are target bullets made to shoot targets. I know Rocksliders know more than the manufacturers, of course. It probably won’t be long before those companies change their marketing materials to get rid of their bullets designed for hunting.

Seriously though, I don’t think there is a perfect bullet. Hopefully, everyone finds ones that work for them to prevent losing wounded game. I’d rather have a bit too much of penetration in case I hit bone, but I’ve only used bullets that fully penetrated lungs or hearty and also destroyed what they hit. That’s good enough for me.

 

[amassi]

143g Hornady Factory Precision Hunter Ammo (ELDx) is going 2000fps and retains 1,300 ft/lbs of energy out to 500 yards. While that is borderline for Elk (hence the 6.5 PRC), it is absolutely fine for medium game.

2000fps is well above the minimum velocity for expansion for the ELDx and 1200 ft lbs of energy is more than enough for a whitetail deer.

While I personally don't take game > 300 yards, bullets like the 143g ELD-x and the 140g Nosler BT are a bad day for a whitetail .

As to @bliner question on penetration. Bonded bullets (Accubond) and monometal bullets are the answer if you want maximum penetration for Elk. Just remember, the 6.5cm is not a long range cartridge for big game.

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[mxgsfmdpx]

I don’t think very many guys actually kill with 6.5s in here, but like to talk about it.

The thread you are looking for on this subject already exists. With actual kills and photos/descriptions of results. Not guys coming in with little experience talking about it.

 

[xsn10s]

Here's an old Wayne Van Zwoll video of him taking a bull with the 129 gr Hornady ammo. I thought it was a bit light but I can't/ won't argue with his success. Maybe switch to the 130 TMK as they seem to be slightly heavier constructed.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Im not following what you are talking about exceeding what I posted by 100 yards.

I don’t recall posting a distance, just velocity.

I’ve been shooting a 6.5 caliber rifle since 1998 (260 REM and now 260AI). I’m aware of what they do well and don’t do well. I’m also aware of their limitations.

Regarding your comment on researching BC and minimum velocity, I don’t give a flip about what someone says on the internet or in a book. I’m going off real world results based on personal experience.


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You posted a screen shot of a drop chart.
Whatever you posted hit 2000 fps at about 525 yards.
My 147 chart shows the 147 hitting 2000 fps at 625 yards.