300 wsm build for european games, selective hunting in Italy

[Dexter Grayson]

Did it explode like if he had an f1 granade exploded in the chest?

Not at all. Simple entrance and exit.

 

[ssimo]

Not at all. Simple entrance and exit.

That's what i mean, it's just a 30 cal with some more fps behind it. I think that with a smaller animal the difference is even less between the terminal destruction of a 308 and a 300 wsm, the heavier and more powerful bullet won't meet enough resistance to deliver all its payload before the exit and shouldn't differ much assuming you are not using a very soft bullet that, with the higher velocity and fast expansion, could make a real mess (not that a 308 with softpoints is not similar)

 

[Desk Jockey]

My 300 tikka made an awful mess of a white tail this year. #120 deer so not big. Bullet was somewhat soft. It hit a near and far side rib and the far side scapula. The wound channel on the far side was so bad I lost most of the shoulder meat. on the plus side, there was so much shock to the lungs, that they were soup. He dropped in his tracks so an easy recovery.

 

[ssimo]

My 300 tikka made an awful mess of a white tail this year. #120 deer so not big. Bullet was somewhat soft. It hit a near and far side rib and the far side scapula. The wound channel on the far side was so bad I lost most of the shoulder meat. on the plus side, there was so much shock to the lungs, that they were soup. He dropped in his tracks so an easy recovery.

That can be desirable in some pretty exceptional circumstances, at least for me. You are losing some meat but an instant drop can be necessary if it's getting dark, if you are near a property where you can't recover the animal, if the animal is next to a precipice or next to very thick woods, etc

So I sometimes aim at the shoulder on purpose and I have been criticized for this from some traditionalists here in Italy. I think that a good hunter is a flexible one, one who can take advantage of many dofferent kind of shots depending on the circumstances. If you shoot a deer in the hearth and he run 50 meters in thick woods at night you are probably gonna lose the whole animal, not only the shoulder. A shoulder shot gives you less margin of error with shot placement so must be taken only when you are 100% confident of placing the bullet with extreme accuracy tough

 

[KenLee]

That can be desirable in some pretty exceptional circumstances, at least for me. You are losing some meat but an instant drop can be necessary if it's getting dark, if you are near a property where you can't recover the animal, if the animal is next to a precipice or next to very thick woods, etc

So I sometimes aim at the shoulder on purpose and I have been criticized for this from some traditionalists here in Italy. I think that a good hunter is a flexible one, one who can take advantage of many dofferent kind of shots depending on the circumstances. If you shoot a deer in the hearth and he run 50 meters in thick woods at night you are probably gonna lose the whole animal, not only the shoulder. A shoulder shot gives you less margin of error with shot placement so must be taken only when you are 100% confident of placing the bullet with extreme accuracy tough

Amen. My Daddy's rule #3 was "you can't eat what you can't find".

 

[Desk Jockey]

That can be desirable in some pretty exceptional circumstances, at least for me. You are losing some meat but an instant drop can be necessary if it's getting dark, if you are near a property where you can't recover the animal, if the animal is next to a precipice or next to very thick woods, etc

So I sometimes aim at the shoulder on purpose and I have been criticized for this from some traditionalists here in Italy. I think that a good hunter is a flexible one, one who can take advantage of many dofferent kind of shots depending on the circumstances. If you shoot a deer in the hearth and he run 50 meters in thick woods at night you are probably gonna lose the whole animal, not only the shoulder. A shoulder shot gives you less margin of error with shot placement so must be taken only when you are 100% confident of placing the bullet with extreme accuracy tough

Fair point And to each their own.

I am going to reserve my 300 for mule deer and elk. I haven’t had aNy deer go far with my 6,5 creed and it is capable of shooting further than I care to.

 

[ssimo]

Fair point And to each their own.

I am going to reserve my 300 for mule deer and elk. I haven’t had aNy deer go far with my 6,5 creed and it is capable of shooting further than I care to.

I would go with a 6.5 prc if I could (6.5 creed may not be ideal for large boars at longer distances.. those things are built like tanks!) But the stupid legislation here doesn't allow to hunt boars and fellow deer with such a small diameter projectile. Minimum 7 mm with the exception of 270 win. Nonsense

 

[KenLee]

I would go with a 6.5 prc if I could (6.5 creed may not be ideal for large boars at longer distances.. those things are built like tanks!) But the stupid legislation here doesn't allow to hunt boars and fellow deer with such a small diameter projectile. Minimum 7 mm with the exception of 270 win. Nonsense

How is the 7mm-08 or 280 rem ammunition availability in your area?
If you aren't shooting game over 600 yards, a 7mm-08 with Superformance SST or ELD-M would be fine for any animal you choose, in my opinion. For smaller game, the 120 gr NBT.

 

[ssimo]

How is the 7mm-08 or 280 rem ammunition availability in your area?
If you aren't shooting game over 600 yards, a 7mm-08 with Superformance SST or ELD-M would be fine for any animal you choose, in my opinion. For smaller game, the 120 gr NBT.

The availability of this ammo is extremely scarce but anyway if I build something to shoot at 600 yards i am gonna use a magnum, not because these cartridges you listed are not capable but they give you less margin shooting at 600 yards. So why i should go the minimum sufficient instead of having plenty of margin with a magnum?

 

[dingle]

That can be desirable in some pretty exceptional circumstances, at least for me. You are losing some meat but an instant drop can be necessary if it's getting dark, if you are near a property where you can't recover the animal, if the animal is next to a precipice or next to very thick woods, etc

So I sometimes aim at the shoulder on purpose and I have been criticized for this from some traditionalists here in Italy. I think that a good hunter is a flexible one, one who can take advantage of many dofferent kind of shots depending on the circumstances. If you shoot a deer in the hearth and he run 50 meters in thick woods at night you are probably gonna lose the whole animal, not only the shoulder. A shoulder shot gives you less margin of error with shot placement so must be taken only when you are 100% confident of placing the bullet with extreme accuracy tough

Thank you for not letting traditionalist criticism influence you too much. You can always silently, and kindly, tell them to keep their mouths shut and move on to the next topic.

 

[ldmay375]

As to the cartridge choice, I would get the 300 WSM and not look back. It seems to have some benefit to you as to availability of ammunition. Ballistically speaking with appropriate bullets it is in a front row seat. Felt recoil is an arguable & individual issue.

I am not that much of a .30 caliber fan but, I like both the 308 Winchester & the 300 WSM.

 

[Formidilosus]

The availability of this ammo is extremely scarce but anyway if I build something to shoot at 600 yards i am gonna use a magnum, not because these cartridges you listed are not capable but they give you less margin shooting at 600 yards. So why i should go the minimum sufficient instead of having plenty of margin with a magnum?

You were set on a 300wsm and are going to get that regardless of any new information, however please explain what “plenty of margin for error” means, and how do you quantify it?

 

[ssimo]

Thank you for not letting traditionalist criticism influence you too much. You can always silently, and kindly, tell them to keep their mouths shut and move on to the next topic.

And that's what i do but people, especially hunters, are much more closed minded here

 

[ssimo]

You were set on a 300wsm and are going to get that regardless of any new information, however please explain what “plenty of margin for error” means, and how do you quantify it?

It can be quantified in many ways.. joules adn ft/lbs for example, but also inches or cm if we talk about wind drift or bullet drop, mm if we talk about frontal diameter and so on. Of course there is more margin shooting an animal at 600 yards with a 300 wsm than with a 7-08. The hardest thing to do is being able to shoot a magnum as you shoot a regular caliber.. if you shoot the magnum bad cause of recoil, flinch, etc or if you wanna carry a superlight rifle because of age or bad shape, then it's much better a regular caliber..

That's just my opinion my friend, maybe i will find myself to be wrong but to me building an all around build intended to shoot up to long distances (at least for me and the size of games i hunt), i think it's reasonable to choose a setup that gives me the most advantages in long shots. A 7-08 and a 280 at that distance start being on the weak side for big boars and so you have less margin. Same for ballistic, it's not a huge deal but the advantages are there. Since i can freely choose a caliber, i don't see the point to choose a 7-08 to shoot 400 pound boars at 600 yards

 

[Formidilosus]

It can be quantified in many ways.. joules adn ft/lbs for example, but also inches or cm if we talk about wind drift or bullet drop, mm if we talk about frontal diameter and so on.

No. I, and the people that are trying to steer you in a better direction are not guessing. I’ve killed hundreds a game animals past 400 yards with every cartridge thus far mentioned. Destroyed vital organs are what kills, and how much vital organs are effected by any given hit is determined primarily by bullet constructions- not caliber or cartridge.

Of course there is more margin shooting an animal at 600 yards with a 300 wsm than with a 7-08.

So explain how there is more margin shooting at an animal at 600 yards with a 300 WSM than with a 7-08. In what exactly- concrete terms, is there more margin? What bullets are you shooting?

The hardest thing to do is being able to shoot a magnum as you shoot a regular caliber.. if you shoot the magnum bad cause of recoil, flinch, etc or if you wanna carry a superlight rifle because of age or bad shape, then it's much better a regular caliber..

Not trying to be rude, but you started the thread asking questions, and now you are giving suggestions?

That's just my opinion my friend, maybe i will find myself to be wrong but to me building an all around build intended to shoot up to long distances (at least for me and the size of games i hunt), i think it's reasonable to choose a setup that gives me the most advantages in long shots. A 7-08 and a 280 at that distance start being on the weak side for big boars and so you have less margin.

Again- define “weak side”. I guarantee I can get a bullet to create a far larger wound- I.E., more margin for error with either of those 7mm’s than the bullets you will use in the 300WSM.

Same for ballistic, it's not a huge deal but the advantages are there. Since i can freely choose a caliber, i don't see the point to choose a 7-08 to shoot 400 pound boars at 600 yards

What bullet are you going to use in your new 300 WSM?

 

[Formidilosus]

@ssimo

I want to be clear that I am not being rude. A Tikka in 300WSM is a fine rifle and your setup sounds fine. It’s that some of your base beliefs with regards to caliber/cartridge and terminal ballistics are incorrect or based on faulty information.

 

[ssimo]

No. I, and the people that are trying to steer you in a better direction are not guessing. I’ve killed hundreds a game animals past 400 yards with every cartridge thus far mentioned. Destroyed vital organs are what kills, and how much vital organs are effected by any given hit is determined primarily by bullet constructions- not caliber or cartridge.





So explain how there is more margin shooting at an animal at 600 yards with a 300 WSM than with a 7-08. In what exactly- concrete terms, is there more margin? What bullets are you shooting?





Not trying to be rude, but you started the thread asking questions, and now you are giving suggestions?





Again- define “weak side”. I guarantee I can get a bullet to create a far larger wound- I.E., more margin for error with either of those 7mm’s than the bullets you will use in the 300WSM.




What bullet are you going to use in your new 300 WSM?

So, assuming i am using the same bullet construction, more energy doesn't translate in more tissue damage?

And also how good a given bullet construction works depends on velocity and velocity depends on how much powder is pushing the bullet so what caliber i am using. Also frontal diameter matters ssinceit determines how much expansion you can get from a given bullet with a specific contruction.. That's what i humbly thought. But if i am wrong please explain me because i know i have still so much to learn about this subject and I wanna learn more cause I am very passionate about this

Btw if caliber is not relevant, lets put it aside. Let's talk about bullet construction, that's a very interesting subject too.

 

[fwafwow]

@ssimo

I want to be clear that I am not being rude. A Tikka in 300WSM is a fine rifle and your setup sounds fine. It’s that some of your base beliefs with regards to caliber/cartridge and terminal ballistics are incorrect or based on faulty information.

@ssimo he is also not picking on you. This and similar issues arise frequently and there is a group of folks, most often @Formidilosus, who try to educate others as to the benefits of considering bullet selection before cartridge.

 

[KenLee]

The availability of this ammo is extremely scarce but anyway if I build something to shoot at 600 yards i am gonna use a magnum, not because these cartridges you listed are not capable but they give you less margin shooting at 600 yards. So why i should go the minimum sufficient instead of having plenty of margin with a magnum?

You wanted to use a brake for recoil reduction on a 300wsm. You would end up with tinnitus at the least harm to your hearing. Maybe worse. With a 7mm-08 you don't need a brake.
I have six rifles in 300wsm. None currently have brakes, as I removed the ones that did have them. Give me the recoil over noise anyday.

 

[ssimo]

@ssimo

I want to be clear that I am not being rude. A Tikka in 300WSM is a fine rifle and your setup sounds fine. It’s that some of your base beliefs with regards to caliber/cartridge and terminal ballistics are incorrect or based on faulty information.

I know younare not being rude since you don't know me, i don't know you and so there is nothing personal of course. Again, please tell me why i am wrong, i am here for this. If i wasn't looking for suggestions i wouldn't have written a thread here. I still didn't buy anything so I am not even defending a choice for which I spent a lot of money and time so I am more than open to change my mind, i just want to make a reasoned choice cause this will be the only one of two rifles for years to come and i hunt a lot so even little details gets bigger