300 wsm build for european games, selective hunting in Italy

[BjornF16]

I don't stricly need a magnum but those cartridges are a bit anemic at distance.

There's nothing "anemic" about any of those cartridges at 500 yards with an appropriate bullet.

 

[ssimo]

There's nothing "anemic" about any of those cartridges at 500 yards with an appropriate bullet.

Doesn't a much more powerful bullet give ypu more margin at 500 yards if you can shoot the gun well? Either in regard to external and terminal ballistic?

So I think why not going bigger? Maybe i am wrong tough!

 

[Castle Rock]

I know, that's a great option too but laws here force me to use 7 mm and above, in exception for 270 win.. what a nonsense

270 in the Tikka would be ideal, and you don’t want or need a brake

 

[BjornF16]

Doesn't a much more powerful bullet give ypu more margin at 500 yards if you can shoot the gun well? Either in regard to external and terminal ballistic?

So I think why not going bigger? Maybe i am wrong tough!

Bullet construction has more to do with killing potential/speed than the cartridge size (headstamp).

Shooting a lighter recoiling cartridge will improve your hit probability and increase your ability to spot your impacts.

A good thread to read (even if you aren’t using a .224 caliber):

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[ssimo]

Bullet construction has more to do with killing potential/speed than the cartridge size (headstamp).

Shooting a lighter recoiling cartridge will improve your hit probability and increase your ability to spot your impacts.

A good thread to read (even if you aren’t using a .224 caliber):

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

So what caliber do you suggest?

 

[ssimo]

270 in the Tikka would be ideal, and you don’t want or need a brake

What about barrel life and barrel lwnght in the 270? And i have noticed that loading lighter bullets in the 308 would give me almost exact same ballistic than a 270 so why 270? I admit i am ignorant on this guys, just wondering

 

[Taudisio]

I know, that's a great option too but laws here force me to use 7 mm and above, in exception for 270 win.. what a nonsense

Does the 6.7 western count? A tikka 270 win will check all your boxes. 7mm-08, 280 rem, 280ai as well. I have zero idea about ammo availability or European cartridges across the pond.

The only reason I suggest these is because you seem timid of the 300wsm and it sounds like you are like me and shouldn’t shoot with a muzzlebrake. The 7rem mag is a solid choice, but both seem unnecessary for your range and size of animals you are chasing.

 

[NilsBackstrom]

Hi everyone. Until now i had a very prolific career hunting with a .308 here in Italy. That rifle, a bergara b14 with a 2-10x50i khales scope with a standard german IV type reticle, is intended to be used inside 250 yards and i built it in order to be as simple as possible, no need to worry about anything at that distances: from 200 yards below just point, shoot and the animal dies. I am currently using 170 gr geco teilmantel ammo (softpoint basically), which my gun shoots extremely well (0.3-0.4 MOA all day in range conditions). Now i want to try to reach a couple hundred meters further so i am looking at a tikka t3x lite in 300 WSM (but i am open to other calibers suggestions). I am still a bit undecided between a 300 wsm and a 7 rem mag but the possibility to have a shorter action and barrel, better barrel life and the fact that i like 30 cals make me lean towards the 300 wsm, despite the heavier recoil (luckily it seems that i just don't develope a flinch when i shoot, maybe until now ahah). And i would use a muzzlebrake anyway. So i wanna know what you think of this setup before starting buying stuff. Consider that i will hunt mainly roe deer (50 lbs), fellow deer (up to 240 lbs), wild boars (up to 380-400 lbs) and hunts outside my country are possible in the future (but this is not central in my choice now). Ranges would be from 10 to 450 meters (500 yards more or less) on average probably around 300 yards. I don't like the idea to shoot further because of the many variables that come into play and are more difficult to face at distances past 500 yards). I do both stalking and still hunting, depending on the circumstances (50-50 i'd say). So:

-rifle: tikka t3x lite 300 wsm with 4-16 s&b scope (FFP, MIL reticle, uncapped turret for elevation, capped for windage and parallax adjustments) in a PSE composite e-lite stock with a bipod (still have to decide which one), sling and a muzzlebrake. Overall weight will be around 9.5-10 lbs.. a bit on the heavy side but i am young and in good phisical shape and a bit of weight will help with the actual shooting.
-ammo: 180 gr accubonds, so maybe the small roe deer wouldn't explode at closer ranges.

My main questions are:
What do you think of this setup? What would you change?
What about the bullet? How would a 180 gr accubond perform on a small roe deer (50 lbs) at 50 meters and 400 meters? And what about a big 400 lbs wild boar at the same distances?
What about the scope?
What about the muzzlebrake? I have always shot without ear protections while hunting but whit that artillery piece i would do it. Any downside other than that and other than increasing weight and bulk of the rifle?

Thanks guys and greetings from italy (a couple pics for entertainment)

I might have few ideas.

A little background. I hunt in Alaska and Sweden. In the US I use a kimber in 300 wsm or a kimber in 6.5 creed. In Sweden I have a a t3x in 308. I have hunted all the animals you mentioned.

To begin with, a 300 wsm with 180 grain accubond will destroy a roe deer. I used my 300 wsm on a blacktail in Alaska. It was not the best shoot but it basically cut it in half. They are similar in size to a fallow deer.

Also if you shoot a 300 wsm with a muzzle break your hearing will be gone eventually if you are not using protection.

The accubonds are pretty good at destroying meat, even on bore. I shot one with my 308 using accubonds and it destroyed too much in my opinion. I only use Barnes ttsx now both in US and Sweden.

I'm not sure how easy it is to get ahold of ammo in Italy but I highly doubt 300 wsm is a very common caliber.

Have you considered changing the scope you have on your 308 and handload with a better bullet.you? A 308 will still take out a big bore at 400 meters.

Or is it that you just want to try something new? It sounds like a pretty expensive experiment.

 

[BjornF16]

So what caliber do you suggest?

See post number 11

 

[Taudisio]

Why not just get a 308 and have two? One for your stalking and another for longer ranges?

 

[ssimo]

Does the 6.7 western count? A tikka 270 win will check all your boxes. 7mm-08, 280 rem, 280ai as well. I have zero idea about ammo availability or European cartridges across the pond.

The only reason I suggest these is because you seem timid of the 300wsm and it sounds like you are like me and shouldn’t shoot with a muzzlebrake. The 7rem mag is a solid choice, but both seem unnecessary for your range and size of animals you are chasing.

What are the benefits of a 270 win over a 308?

And why you say you shouldn't use a muzzlebrake?

Thanks for the replies

 

[ssimo]

I might have few ideas.

A little background. I hunt in Alaska and Sweden. In the US I use a kimber in 300 wsm or a kimber in 6.5 creed. In Sweden I have a a t3x in 308. I have hunted all the animals you mentioned.

To begin with, a 300 wsm with 180 grain accubond will destroy a roe deer. I used my 300 wsm on a blacktail in Alaska. It was not the best shoot but it basically cut it in half. They are similar in size to a fallow deer.

Also if you shoot a 300 wsm with a muzzle break your hearing will be gone eventually if you are not using protection.

The accubonds are pretty good at destroying meat, even on bore. I shot one with my 308 using accubonds and it destroyed too much in my opinion. I only use Barnes ttsx now both in US and Sweden.

I'm not sure how easy it is to get ahold of ammo in Italy but I highly doubt 300 wsm is a very common caliber.

Have you considered changing the scope you have on your 308 and handload with a better bullet.you? A 308 will still take out a big bore at 400 meters.

Or is it that you just want to try something new? It sounds like a pretty expensive experiment.

Ok i get your point. As far as ammo availability the 300 wsm is pretty easy to find here. We have the same ammo you have in the US as far as main manufacturer plus we have a lot of rws and geco.

I considered it but as i said i have a setup i like and I don't wanna change it. When something just works well i don't wanna change it. I could even buy another 308, this has been my idea for some time but then I said why not getting something more effective for my goals. Also i don't wanna change a scope that always worked well, kept zero perfectly and is just handy and efficient. And the rifle i have now is the perfect weight for me, adding a bipod and a heavier scope would give birth to a gun too heavy for my tastes.

The fact that a 300 wsm would destroy a roe is what i was worried about also because roes are, at the moment, my main target. So using harder bullets wouldn't work in your opinion?

 

[ssimo]

Why not just get a 308 and have two? One for your stalking and another for longer ranges?

Yeah i am tempted about buying another 308.. but when it's the moment of taking the shot at 400 yards with a 10mph crosswind i think I would much prefer to have something else

 

[Boonie327]

For what you’d be spending on a new rig, you could buy lots of ammo (assuming .308 is as readily available for you as it is here) and get enough shots down range in varying conditions that it’ll negate any advantage a new cartridge will give you. I really don’t think there’s anything you’re wanting to do that your current setup can’t handle.

 

[Taudisio]

What are the benefits of a 270 win over a 308?

And why you say you shouldn't use a muzzlebrake?

Thanks for the replies

I did a simple search of Hornady factory loadings. Below you will find 270 145gr eldx mv-2970, 308 150gr sst mv-3000, and 7mm rem mag 154 sst mv-3100. The only reason I suggest the 270 is you will have comparable recoil, better bc and sectional density with a 150 class. The 7 mag will be slightly “snappier”. The 270 splits the ballistic difference in exchange for similar recoil to a 308. You have 3” less drop going from 308 to 270 to 7mm at 500 yards with these loads.

For the muzzlebrake, go to the range and shoot someone’s rifle that has a brake without hearing protection (don’t do it). Be prepared to have tinnitus like me.

 

[ssimo]

I did a simple search of Hornady factory loadings. Below you will find 270 145gr eldx mv-2970, 308 150gr sst mv-3000, and 7mm rem mag 154 sst mv-3100. The only reason I suggest the 270 is you will have comparable recoil, better bc and sectional density with a 150 class. The 7 mag will be slightly “snappier”. The 270 splits the ballistic difference in exchange for similar recoil to a 308. You have 3” less drop going from 308 to 270 to 7mm at 500 yards with these loads.

For the muzzlebrake, go to the range and shoot someone’s rifle that has a brake without hearing protection (don’t do it). Be prepared to have tinnitus like me.

Yeah that's what i mean, for such small gains i would buy another 308 because of the 30 cal pill and the availability of ammo and parts for handloading! And also barrel life!

I think the most powerful rifle is generally preferrable for hunting if you can shoot it well. And who knows maybe in the future i will shoot past 500 yards.

 

[ssimo]

Couldn't Eld-x be a bit too much esplosive at close ranges on a small roe deer?

No, it should crush them. Try a 150-165gr Hornady sst in your 308 and it should give you similar results. Shoot them in the ribs.

My rifle shoots sst horribly. I tried 5 factory fiocchi ammo loaded with sst and it shot a 5 MOA group so i assume that even handloading with that bullet results would be potrebbe but maybe i am wrong

 

[KenLee]

My rifle shoots sst horribly. I tried 5 factory fiocchi ammo loaded with sst and it shot a 5 MOA group

Hornady SST bullets are awesome IF a rifle can handle the speed they are being pushed.
No clue on the Fiocci.
I was actually going to mention a 22 inch barreled 30-06 with 165 gr Superformance SST as option for you. No brake.
The Superformance SST factory ammo is crazy accurate in my a-bolts and x-bolts.
Shoots like a shotgun from the only two BLRs that I've tried.

 

[Taudisio]

Yeah that's what i mean, for such small gains i would buy another 308 because of the 30 cal pill and the availability of ammo and parts for handloading! And also barrel life!

I think the most powerful rifle is generally preferrable for hunting if you can shoot it well. And who knows maybe in the future i will shoot past 500 yards.

If you have a gunsmith throat the 270 long, put a fast twist barrel, and roll your own ammo, that opens up the heavy 6.7mm bullets that should stomp on the 308. You are right about the barrel life vs the 308, I do not have enough experience with it, but I would assume a 270win would have slightly better/comparable to the 300wsm

 

[BjornF16]

My rifle shoots sst horribly. I tried 5 factory fiocchi ammo loaded with sst and it shot a 5 MOA group so i assume that even handloading with that bullet results would be potrebbe but maybe i am wrong

I’ve never had good results with Fiocchi ammo…that is more a commentary on their load and not the bullet.

Of course, it’s possible that your .308 doesn’t like SST bullet, or the particular one you were shooting; but I thought we were really discussing your next rifle and appropriate hunting bullets