.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM

[Bluefish]

Long shot, but I figured I would ask. I finally have time to start loading up for my .257 weatherby mag that I had a new fast twist barrel put on. Has anyone loaded the 134 eldms? I can't find any load data for it. I even asked hornaday, they said their test rifle doesn't have a fast enough twist so they don't have data. The closest I can find is data for the 135 berger. Do you think it would be fine to use that data? Given I would work my way up.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

I looked for a similar case capacity 6.5 and started with its minimum load for a 140g when I did my 25 prc.

 

[schmidty3]

It's about that time.

25 prc on the way.

Have we landed on on favorite bullet yet?

From what I've gathered here's the tier list (correct me if im wrong?). (They all seem pretty awesome)

Cost:
Atips $85ish
135s $65ish
133s/131s $55 ish
134s $45ish

Published ballistics:
138 Atip
135 berger
131 sierra/BJ
134 eldm
133 berger

Sierra and 135 are so close I wonder if the sierra could be pushed a bit faster and beat the 135. Assuming the same velocity my calls are showing just a few tenths of a mil difference at 1000 between the 133, 134, and 135. So really a wash.

Quality/accuracy:

Bergers/atips(?)
Sierra (?)
Eldms

Not sure where the atips fit in relation to bergers. But at that cost they better be great. No idea on the sierras assuming very nice, but not sure where they fall in regards to the bergers. But after my recent tip issues with eldms (they sucked, very fragile), I'm wary of eldms. All are probably way more accurate then me (assuming the tips stay attached!)

Terminal effect:

Eldms likely the most consistent. Quick and violent upset.
133s. Very violent.
135s. Take a bit longer to open up. Less consistent (?)
Sierras (no idea?)
Atips. Generally not recommended for hunting as they don't consistently open up.

Seems like they all are pretty great and almost a wash on all accounts. The Atips get shelved from cost and terminal effects. Eldms win on price and terminal effect but im scared of those tips leaving me hanging.

I'm thinking the 133s are in my future.

 

[Hydra6]

I shoot a lot of 134 ELDMs for PRS and in my experience the actual BC is higher than the advertised BC. I have to true the BC higher in my Kestrel with AB for hits past 700 yards.

 

[Piercision Rifles]

It's about that time.

25 prc on the way.

Have we landed on on favorite bullet yet?

From what I've gathered here's the tier list (correct me if im wrong?). (They all seem pretty awesome)

Cost:
Atips $85ish
135s $65ish
133s/131s $55 ish
134s $45ish

Published ballistics:
138 Atip
135 berger
131 sierra/BJ
134 eldm
133 berger

Sierra and 135 are so close I wonder if the sierra could be pushed a bit faster and beat the 135. Assuming the same velocity my calls are showing just a few tenths of a mil difference at 1000 between the 133, 134, and 135. So really a wash.

Quality/accuracy:

Bergers/atips(?)
Sierra (?)
Eldms

Not sure where the atips fit in relation to bergers. But at that cost they better be great. No idea on the sierras assuming very nice, but not sure where they fall in regards to the bergers. But after my recent tip issues with eldms (they sucked, very fragile), I'm wary of eldms. All are probably way more accurate then me (assuming the tips stay attached!)

Terminal effect:

Eldms likely the most consistent. Quick and violent upset.
133s. Very violent.
135s. Take a bit longer to open up. Less consistent (?)
Sierras (no idea?)
Atips. Generally not recommended for hunting as they don't consistently open up.

Seems like they all are pretty great and almost a wash on all accounts. The Atips get shelved from cost and terminal effects. Eldms win on price and terminal effect but im scared of those tips leaving me hanging.

I'm thinking the 133s are in my future.

I just got a nice shipment of 133's in the other day. Have 135s on the shelf as well.

www.piercisionrifles.com

 

[juju]

I've had a lot of great experiences with a 25 WSSM. It's in the sweet spot for medium game in my taste. Load development is so easy. Performance on game is textbook.

I have zero interest in the extra-long target bullets in medium capacity cartridges. That's literally retarded. You can keep all Hornady's short bus cartridges on the target range or just toss them in the garbage where they belong.

 

[Tbone26]

I've had a lot of great experiences with a 25 WSSM. It's in the sweet spot for medium game in my taste. Load development is so easy. Performance on game is textbook.

I have zero interest in the extra-long target bullets in medium capacity cartridges. That's literally retarded. You can keep all Hornady's short bus cartridges on the target range or just toss them in the garbage where they belong.

LOL can you elaborate on why high BC bullets are bad?

 

[juju]

LOL can you elaborate on why high BC bullets are bad?

I didn't say high BC is bad per se. I said they're retarding in medium capacity cartridges when used off the target range. Also, I implied Hornady sucks.

 

[TxLite]

I didn't say high BC is bad per se. I said they're retarding in medium capacity cartridges when used off the target range. Also, I implied Hornady sucks.

I’d argue that they’re more important in medium capacity cartridges where you don’t have the velocity to fight the wind.

I’m not sure why you are opposed to less wind drift and further effective range, but to each his own.

 

[Tbone26]

I didn't say high BC is bad per se. I said they're retarding in medium capacity cartridges when used off the target range. Also, I implied Hornady sucks.

I think you could make an argument for closer ranges, but I don't believe case capacity is relevant in choosing a high BC bullet in most cartridges. For my hunting uses I can't think of a reason why I wouldn't use a high BC bullet.

What's your issue with Hornady? They have served me well.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I said they're retarding in medium capacity cartridges when used off the target range.

I would say they're advancing when used off the target range, not retarding.

 

[juju]

I think you could make an argument for closer ranges, but I don't believe case capacity is relevant in choosing a high BC bullet in most cartridges. For my hunting uses I can't think of a reason why I wouldn't use a high BC bullet.

What's your issue with Hornady? They have served me well.

Overpressure, inconsistent ammo, inconsistent bullet performance, over hyped cartridges that work worse for average use.
And let's not forget their utter joke of shotshells that suck even when they make them the way they intended. Hornady gets a lot right, but they get too much wrong to bother with overall. They sell enough good to stay ahead of the trash and spend enough on advertising to coat it all over with icing. Most ammo companies do much better.

That's a lot of words to explain that Hornady sucks. I already said that.

 

[juju]

I would say they're advancing when used off the target range, not retarding.

Just making sure you know what a magnum cartridge is and why they exist. You don't have to tell me.

 

[willfrye027]

I didn't say high BC is bad per se. I said they're retarding in medium capacity cartridges when used off the target range. Also, I implied Hornady sucks.

That’s a super duper great argument you’ve made, I am convinced that my 25 creedmoor sucks I should probably just give it away for free

 

[juju]

That’s a super duper great argument you’ve made, I am convinced that my 25 creedmoor sucks I should probably just give it away for free

Why?! That's a horrible thing to do to someone.

 

[bmart2622]

Seems like theres a troll in every thread these day

 

[roymunson]

That’s a super duper great argument you’ve made, I am convinced that my 25 creedmoor sucks I should probably just give it away for free

DIBS

 

[schmidty3]

Just to confirm your stance....

hornady creedmoor and PRC cases suck...

but winchester wssm cases are the best thing since sliced bread?

as a 243 wssm owner.... this may be the most comical thing ive ever read. It using a completely new bolt diameter also ***** you over when it's time to rebarrel. Your cartridge options are 223 wssm. 243 wssm. And 25 wssm. Not to mention brass availability is almost non existent. And I don't think you could consistently find factory ammo for any of them.

25 wssm was dead on arrival.

243 wssm was "fine". But winchester choosing the slow twist rate handicapped it to light bullets. It could've been pretty great if you could shoot high BC bullets.

I'm building a 25 prc right now.

But if you really like wssm's. I'll sell you my m70 stainless coyote 243 wssm I haven't touched in 15 years. I'll even throw in the dies.

Overpressure, inconsistent ammo, inconsistent bullet performance, over hyped cartridges that work worse for average use.
And let's not forget their utter joke of shotshells that suck even when they make them the way they intended. Hornady gets a lot right, but they get too much wrong to bother with overall. They sell enough good to stay ahead of the trash and spend enough on advertising to coat it all over with icing. Most ammo companies do much better.

That's a lot of words to explain that Hornady sucks. I already said tha

 

[juju]

Just to confirm your stance....

hornady creedmoor and PRC cases suck...

but winchester wssm cases are the best thing since sliced bread?

as a 243 wssm owner.... this may be the most comical thing ive ever read. It using a completely new bolt diameter also ***** you over when it's time to rebarrel. Your cartridge options are 223 wssm. 243 wssm. And 25 wssm. Not to mention brass availability is almost non existent. And I don't think you could consistently find factory ammo for any of them.

25 wssm was dead on arrival.

243 wssm was "fine". But winchester choosing the slow twist rate handicapped it to light bullets. It could've been pretty great if you could shoot high BC bullets.

I'm building a 25 prc right now.

But if you really like wssm's. I'll sell you my m70 stainless coyote 243 wssm I haven't touched in 15 years. I'll even throw in the dies.

That's all incorrect.

Pass, thanks. Winchester infamously did a terrible job on the WSSMs they built. I wouldn't touch a 243 WSSM anyhow. 6mms measurably suck for hunting. Perhaps you figured that out. This thread is about quarterbores.

Since I pad the price of deciphering what you tapped there. I'm going to charge the relation of a story Johnny Cash told on Merle and Willie. It helps to know Willie is notoriously competitive and vindictive, which Merle would have known same as anyone.

Johnny and Willie were partying in a hotel room. Merle walks in and as soon as pleasantries ended, he looked at Willie and said, "You know, my record's #1." Willie launched into a long-winded reply that Johnny paraphrased as, "You know Merle? Me and Johhny, we don't care."

 

[schmidty3]

That's all incorrect.

Pass, thanks. Winchester infamously did a terrible job on the WSSMs they built. I wouldn't touch a 243 WSSM anyhow. 6mms measurably suck for hunting. Perhaps you figured that out. This thread is about quarterbores.

Since I pad the price of deciphering what you tapped there. I'm going to charge the relation of a story Johnny Cash told on Merle and Willie. It helps to know Willie is notoriously competitive and vindictive, which Merle would have known same as anyone.

Johnny and Willie were partying in a hotel room. Merle walks in and as soon as pleasantries ended, he looked at Willie and said, "You know, my record's #1." Willie launched into a long-winded reply that Johnny paraphrased as, "You know Merle? Me and Johhny, we don't care."

Clarify your position more clearly then...
seems like you hate hornady but love wssm's (?). Hornady was overhyped but wssms weren't? Seems like hornady mightve been adequately hyped. 6.5 creed has supplanted 308 as the baseline default round. And the PRC case seems to do everything better then the wssms. Maybe what they should've been to begin with. How long did the wssms last? I feel like it was less then 5 years. Why if they were so great? (Maybe had something to do with them not really doing anything better then a 243 or 22-250 and disinterest in anything 25 cal due to weak bullet selection)

Hey you never know... figured since you like .540 bolt faces so much you may like mine . They are rare after all.

I mean...just looking around this place...6mm's seem to work pretty decent. Even better with heavy for caliber bullets. I think I'd rather send a 115 gr 6mm over a 115 gr .25 (since you dont like heavy for caliber bullets). But maybe I'm just that ignorant.

 

[juju]

It seems you finally figured it out in the end. Congratulations.