25 creed vs the others

[schmidty3]

I think his point was that by starting the 147 at the top of the velocity window for reliable terminal performance, as opposed to above that window, there isn’t a worry of being too fast for desired performance at close range.


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i have a feeling that the bullet will do just fine at 2800 fps. theres a lot of guys slinging them with magnums at 3200fps +. (i am about to be doing the same with my 25 prc and 133 bergers). I predict lots of meat jello in that guns future.

 

[wyosam]

i have a feeling that the bullet will do just fine at 2800 fps. theres a lot of guys slinging them with magnums at 3200fps +. (i am about to be doing the same with my 25 prc and 133 bergers). I predict lots of meat jello in that guns future.

No idea, just seemed to be the point he was making. I’m sure the’ll kill fine at those faster impacts, but might be messier than many want.


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[Jordan Smith]

I think his point was that by starting the 147 at the top of the velocity window for reliable terminal performance, as opposed to above that window, there isn’t a worry of being too fast for desired performance at close range.


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Yup. He missed the "non-point."

 

[Jordan Smith]

You realize that you effectively made a non-point in this debate? And You've unwittingly reinforced my point.

They both have eldms. The velocity expansion windows are the same.

I could take your exact paragraph, sub in 134 eldm, and the point would still be intact.

My current 147 load is 2675 fps. A 25 creed would comfortably send a mildly loaded 134 to 2850.

In this arbitrary condition in hot muggy houston...the 147 drops below 1800 at around 675 yards. The 25 keeps it past 800. Say ~125 yards more expansion range. That's not nothing. AND it gets to 800 with 1 mil less drop! That's not nothing either!

I think the creed case yearns for 130-140 gr bullets. Anything more is PRC food.

Yeah, you simply missed the point. But that's okay. I've watched moose die at point-blank range with an ELD bullet started at 2950 fps. It worked. C&C bullets, including ELD-Ms, can get messy at those impact speeds (2800+ fps), which I'm personally not a fan of. I get that some people like a grenade to go off, but others (including me) prefer predictable moderate expansion. Starting an ELD-M at 2700 fps essentially ensures that type of terminal behaviour.

BTW, for an apples-to-apples comparison, let's use the speeds published by Hornady in their factory ammo, 2800 fps for the 134 ELD-M and 2695 fps for the 147. In my arbitrary atmospheric conditions, the 147 dips below 1800 fps at 765 m, and the 135 falls below at 785 m. At 765 m and in a 10 mph FV wind, the 134 drops 5.6 mrad and drifts 1.1 mrad (34"), and the 147 drops 6.0 mrad and drifts 1.1 mrad (32.3"). Not so different.

 

[Quandary]

Take a listen to the latest Hornady Podcast. They discuss the Creedmores with Jayden Quinlan. Basically from a bullet ballistic standpoint and the things you can do with bullet production to achieve the desired ballistics the the 25 is the best blend when all things are considered.

 

[willfrye027]

Take a listen to the latest Hornady Podcast. They discuss the Creedmores with Jayden Quinlan. Basically from a bullet ballistic standpoint and the things you can do with bullet production to achieve the desired ballistics the the 25 is the best blend when all things are considered.

This was the conclusion I came to. But after about 4000 rounds of 25 creedmoor, I prefer the 6 and 22 versions mostly for reduced recoil. The 25 creed which I shoot unbraked at about 9.25lbs…requires some focus to execute a good shot every time. Not as forgiving in field conditions as a 6cm or 22cm.

 

[MuleyFever]

This was the conclusion I came to. But after about 4000 rounds of 25 creedmoor, I prefer the 6 and 22 versions mostly for reduced recoil. The 25 creed which I shoot unbraked at about 9.25lbs…requires some focus to execute a good shot every time. Not as forgiving in field conditions as a 6cm or 22cm.

I honestly dont get this argument. How does the 25 require more focus. The pre-shot sequence for one caliber does not require any more focus than any other caliber. The process that happens before the trigger breaks is no different.

 

[Quandary]

This was the conclusion I came to. But after about 4000 rounds of 25 creedmoor, I prefer the 6 and 22 versions mostly for reduced recoil. The 25 creed which I shoot unbraked at about 9.25lbs…requires some focus to execute a good shot every time. Not as forgiving in field conditions as a 6cm or 22cm.

I don't have a 25 Creed but did just build a 25 Ackley, suppressed, throwing 133 Bergers at 3,250. I only have a 126 rounds down the tube and 1 Mule Deer but I find the lack of recoil refreshing! I guess its all relative.

 

[willfrye027]

I honestly dont get this argument. How does the 25 require more focus. The pre-shot sequence for one caliber does not require any more focus than any other caliber. The process that happens before the trigger breaks is no different.

There is something subconscious happening, it could be me. I am recoil sensitive.

I’m up to around 20 big game animals with a 25 creedmoor. 12 or so with 22 creedmoor. It’s hard to verbalize and type..but I just shoot better, spot impacts better, and have more confidence with the lower recoil of the 22 creedmoor. 6 creedmoor I have not killed anything with just range time, but it feels much closer to the 22 than the 25.

Not knocking the 25cm at all, it is an awesome cartridge, and I just killed another elk with it..but I wasn’t happy with my shooting performance. Been shooting the 22 more this season and had myself wishing that I had brought it instead.

 

[MuleyFever]

There is something subconscious happening, it could be me. I am recoil sensitive.

I’m up to around 20 big game animals with a 25 creedmoor. 12 or so with 22 creedmoor. It’s hard to verbalize and type..but I just shoot better, spot impacts better, and have more confidence with the lower recoil of the 22 creedmoor. 6 creedmoor I have not killed anything with just range time, but it feels much closer to the 22 than the 25.

Not knocking the 25cm at all, it is an awesome cartridge, and I just killed another elk with it..but I wasn’t happy with my shooting performance. Been shooting the 22 more this season and had myself wishing that I had brought it instead.

From a subconscious perspective for some people I can understand it. I hunted a season with a 6CM and loved shooting it but wanted more bullet so I got a 25CM. I can agree the 6CM is more pleasant to shoot.

 

[willfrye027]

From a subconscious perspective for some people I can understand it. I hunted a season with a 6CM and loved shooting it but wanted more bullet so I got a 25CM. I can agree the 6CM is more pleasant to shoot.

I can point to three specific instances (yesterday included) where something happened during the shot sequence, some kind of anticipation or flinch, that resulted in poor shooting or not being able to spot the impact. I have not had that problem with my 22cm. Granted I’ve been shooting a lot less the last 6 months, so I really need all the forgiveness I can get.

I will say if you forced me to pick one gun right now to make the most important shot of my life, it would be my 25 creedmoor. It has literally never shot a 10 shot group bigger than 1.1” and I’ve never touched the load, zero, etc for the last 500 rounds of this barrel. And no animal has ever walked away from it.

But I wish there was less recoil. If I wasn’t in CA it would have a supressor and all would be well. My 22cm barrels have all required load tinkering and backing off powder charges over time, burned out barrels, blowing up bullets, and other annoyances.

 

[wind gypsy]

Flinch or not. With a light weight rifle with some recoil I’d be more prone to focusing on recoil management than I would with the same in a 223.

 

[willfrye027]

Flinch or not. With a light weight rifle with some recoil I’d be more prone to focusing on recoil management than I would with the same in a 223.

That shit tends to go out the window with a big buck or a bull in the crosshairs

 

[Jordan Smith]

Take a listen to the latest Hornady Podcast. They discuss the Creedmores with Jayden Quinlan. Basically from a bullet ballistic standpoint and the things you can do with bullet production to achieve the desired ballistics the the 25 is the best blend when all things are considered.

Almost as if Hornady is trying to promote their latest revenue stream.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

I really like 25 cal cartridges, but it is more of an emotional affinity based on nostalgia for the 25-06 more than anything.

But looking at the numbers, nerding out on the minutia, I just don’t see any practical (for me) reason to switch from the 6.5 to the 25.

Having used a 16” suppressed 6.5 with 130 TMK’s for two seasons now (with one more hunt left this season), there is zero value in changing. I do think the capacity of the CM case shines in the 130ish range - I understand that many use the 147, but in my application the velocity is just too low and recoil goes up.

My 130TMK load is 2750. I would lose velocity going to a 25 cal 134; I would gain BC but for a 500 yard and in application (how I hunt) that benefit is essentially moot. While having essentially the same recoil.

My point is, I think the 25CM does offer some objective advantages to the 6.5CM IF comparing certain bullets launched from certain barrel lengths to achieve certain velocities. The question then becomes, are those advantages, albeit small, pertinent to you, your envisioned rifle system, and your style of hunting?

For example, in the Hornady Podcast comparing all the Creeds, Jayden said the 25CM 134 provides 4” less drift at 1000 yards compared to the 147 6.5.

Again, is this a practical advantage for you?
Maybe. Maybe not. For my use case, no.

I do see however, an advantage to the 6CM with 108/9s: higher velocity, with less recoil than my current set up. 22 CM makes the most sense to me, but I hunt CO so that’s a non-starter.

That said, I will likely still a 25CM simply because I have a ton of 25 cal bullets sitting on the shelf. However they are “old school” in the 100-110gr range. I could do the 25CM in a 16” barrel set up shooting these bullets for the wife to achieve less recoil than my 6.5 set up; with her shots should be no more than 300 yards. My concern however, is accidentally mixing up the cartridges in the field: imagine two identical tikka mags, both loaded with green tipped Sierras… I can see an accident happening.

 

[Jordan Smith]

For example, in the Hornady Podcast comparing all the Creeds, Jayden said the 25CM 134 provides 4” less drift at 1000 yards compared to the 147 6.5.

I agree with your post, and even this quoted advantage is an oversimplification. The 134 provides 4” less drift in what atmospheric conditions? Pretty easy to see a 25%+ difference in relative ballistic performance from one atmospheric extreme to the other.

 

[nm.otter]

But looking at the numbers, nerding out on the minutia, I just don’t see any practical (for me) reason to switch from the 6.5 to the 25.

After a similar analysis I came to the same conclusion.

A wide range of .25 Creedmoor factory rifle options and quality $1/rd target ammo would have changed my math when I bought in. Now I'm looking at 6mm GT.

 

[Quandary]

Almost as if Hornady is trying to promote their latest revenue stream.

For a reloader who is willing to have barrels chamber there is nothing a Creedmore or PRC can do that an existing cartridge can do. However I imagine in the vast majority of hunters/shooters they fill a niche. And after all they are in business to make and sell stuff.

 

[wyosam]

I don't have a 25 Creed but did just build a 25 Ackley, suppressed, throwing 133 Bergers at 3,250. I only have a 126 rounds down the tube and 1 Mule Deer but I find the lack of recoil refreshing! I guess its all relative.

Same, my 257ai is super easy to shoot, but it’s on the light end of what I shoot for the most part, though I did add a light 223 finally last year.


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[minas stiris]

25CM fits right between 6CM and 6.5CM...

In all honesty, I would opt for a 25CM before a 6.5CM for sure. Bullet weight is right there with the 130-140 6.5mm bullets. Heavy .257s are 131, 133, 134 135, & 138gr with higher BCs that any of the moderate 6.5mms or the heavy 6mms.

The 6mms start out faster, but don't carry the minimum velocity or energy as far and the 25s pass them at distance. And the added weight of the 25s pack some more punch downrange.