Is a 6.5 PRC enough? Do I need a 7mm?

[Greenbelt]

Yes, recoil is a down side. Almost any centerfire rifle with the right bullet will quickly kill any animal with a well placed shot. A big bullet going fast won’t kill quickly with a bad shot. After seeing big bullets not just knock over an animal even with good shot placement, I started researching why. Turns out the bullet construction and velocity is much more important than the caliber.

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

What down sides are those? Immediately killing the animal with a well placed shot? The downsides would be the kick back I assume. I don't hate 6.5's. But if you can carry something that absolutely will kill something why would you not?

What North American animal is going to survive a hit from a 6.5 PRC but a hit in the same spot from a 7 PRC, 28 Nosler, etc. will kill it?


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[Q_Sertorius]

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

Most hunters should not be shooting at elk with anything at 700 yards.


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[Bluefish]

So I agree with you on bullet construction and so so on velocity. I carried guns for a living so velocity bullet size etc etc is and was the name of the game. I agree with you on kill power 100%. But there's a sweet spot for ppls capabilities and abilities. My argument is most average shooters should not be shooting an elk with a 6.5 at 700 yds, and I assume thats what most these guides are thinking. But in general your pretty spot on.

I would agree, I have no business shooting any living thing at 700 yards. I don’t shoot enough at distance to make that shot with a high enough probability of a first round hit.

I am a guy who has built a 7rm and a 7 prc and sold both as I hated them. Could not shoot them well and more recoil than I want to deal with. I find I shoot better with less recoil and I am really enjoying my 25 prc.

 

[Chris in TN]

Most hunters should not be shooting at elk with anything at 700 yards.


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I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

It’s hard to fight the idea that a more powerful cartridge doesn’t give you a larger margin for error. It is false confidence.

To the extent that using a more powerful rifle with more recoil and more expensive ammo makes practice less likely, it is counterproductive.

Not sure I agree with your exact formula, but there is something to it.


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[LongWayAround]

I'm going to spitball a formula here: The average hunter's effective range in yards is maybe (number of PRACTICE rounds fired from hunting positions in off season)*(5).

Also -in economics we talk about marginal costs versus marginal utility.

If people would look at these discussions from the standpoint of the marginal costs of shooting bigger calibers versus the marginal utility, and make honest estimations of both.....ehhh, these discussions would be like three posts long. They're ultimately math problems. And they've already been solved. A lot of guys just choose not to believe the math.

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

That’s one problem with the formula, for sure. The other is that it is just based on volume.

For me, if the shooter can’t hit an 8-moa target 10/10 times at that range under field conditions, he is past his maximum range for that shooting position. You can change that to 10-moa for elk, I guess.


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[Chris in TN]

I agree with your last paragraph, but not sure I understand the "formula."

200 practice rounds from field position X 5 = 1000yd effective range???

Maybe a factor of 2.5 or 3 would be more appropriate.

I was serious about it just being a spitball. Whether the factor is 5x or 10x or 3x, I don't know, nor do I think it's really that reducible. I'm simply pointing out that there's some relationship between practice (for someone who has workable fundamentals to begin with) and effective distance. You can't buy that skillset at the gunstore. You earn it a few yards at at time.

ETA: And I say that as a guy who isn't dedicated to long range shooting. I do it every now and then but of late I have been focused on other things.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I was serious about it just being a spitball. Whether the factor is 5x or 10x or 3x, I don't know, nor do I think it's really that reducible. I'm simply pointing out that there's some relationship between practice (for someone who has workable fundamentals to begin with) and effective distance. You can't buy that skillset at the gunstore. You earn it a few yards at at time.

ETA: And I say that as a guy who isn't dedicated to long range shooting. I do it every now and then but of late I have been focused on other things.

Yeah, I totally understand that it was just spitballing.


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[HandgunHTR]

That’s one problem with the formula, for sure. The other is that it is just based on volume.

For me, if the shooter can’t hit an 8-moa target 10/10 times at that range under field conditions, he is past his maximum range for that shooting position. You can change that to 10-moa for elk, I guess.


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While I understand what you are saying, you do realize that a 10-MOA target at 800 yards is an 83.76" circle, right?

I think what you meant to say is that unless they can hit a 8" or 10" target at their chosen distance, but feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

While I understand what you are saying, you do realize that a 10-MOA target at 800 yards is an 83.76" circle, right?

I think what you meant to say is that unless they can hit a 8" or 10" target at their chosen distance, but feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.

You are correct.


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[Spiral Horn]

Know that I’m late to the party here but just wanted to share my experience with 6.5mm cartridges/bullets over the past few years.

For decades I was a committed 300win/300wea 180gr guy. They killed everything from deer to brown bear. But they often weren’t the “flying sledgehammer” that legend/lore made them out to be. In addition, magnum action rifles usually aren’t that light, handy or easy shooting (especially in the field) as their smaller cartridge cousins. They also have considerably more blast/recoil — I’m not a fan of adding the weight/length of a suppressor to a hunting rig, and they aren’t legal everywhere.

Bought my first 6.5 back in 2016 as I was increasingly focused on mountain game. For sheep/goat hunts weight of everything is critical. Grams turn into ounces, ounces to pounds, and pounds into pain. In addition to the rifles, both 300 and 7mm ammo is considerably heavier than 6.5PRC. Right from the start I was impressed with the performance of the 6.5s.

Since then I’ve taken quite a few sheep/goats out to ~600 yards. The 6.5CM & PRC have truly impressed everything I’ve ever pointed them at. What’s really impressed me are both the damage and penetration on game, even at distance. Most shots were complete penetration and the few that weren’t were quartered toward me and hit heavy bone early in the wound channel. Used 140gr Accubonds and 143 ELD-X. Love them both. My confidence in 6.5s is based on repeated performance on game.

Now, will they be my choice for an elk hunt? My point totals in several western states are getting close to guaranteeing me a tag, so we’ll certainly find out. Do I believe a 6.5PRC is enough for a mature bull elk at reasonable hunting ranges? - YES. Would I feel more comfortable using a 7mm PRC (I have one), or a 300? The jury is still out - a lot will depend on how well I’m shooting individual rifles. But for great bears it will be a 300win bonded bullet at a minimum.

Another point is confidence in one’s equipment. I was a committed bow hunter for a good portion of my hunting career (and still hunt that way from time to time). There is just no substitute to the firm conviction that if I do my part the result will be a clean kill.

 

[nobody]

What North American animal is going to survive a hit from a 6.5 PRC but a hit in the same spot from a 7 PRC, 28 Nosler, etc. will kill it?


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I can answer this question: elk. Everyone knows they have Kevlar hide and their bones are adamantium. They’re the “Wolverine” of the ungulates, doesn’t everyone know that?

This thread is making me think I better go put a few more rounds into the bull in my freezer since I only shot him with my 6.5 creed, same with a couple mule deer in there keeping him company. I also better get off Rokslide and call my cousin and brother and let them know to put a few rounds through their shoulder mount bulls since they were only shot with a 130-140 grain bullet from a 270 (one at almost 500 yards quartering away). I can’t believe none of them have gotten up and walked away yet.




***insert sarcasm emoji here***