.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM

[amassi]

Not necessarily looking for more speed, but improved case life.

Has anybody that's gone the .25-06 AI route had any feeding issues with the improved shoulder?

Not with a center feed tikka magazine.
As you alluded to, you also have drastically less case stretch and trimming in the 06 based cases when AI


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[Brandon.miller.4]

I'm quite happy with my 25-284. I need to back off a bit on powder charge. Never had pressure issues initially but I'm getting a few rounds that are showing pressure here and there. My guess is that my mv will be around 2980-3000ish after I back it down.

Update on this load so nobody gets false confidence on powder charge and velocity!

Backed load from 55.5 to 54. Went out to shoot and get velocity readings. At 55.5 I had developed that load at 10 degrees in the winter, when shot In the summer I was getting pressure. I dropped down to 54g h1000 and now I am getting no pressure and still good velocity at 2950fps. Less recoil too. Still happy with it.

 

[FLS]

Update on this load so nobody gets false confidence on powder charge and velocity!

Backed load from 55.5 to 54. Went out to shoot and get velocity readings. At 55.5 I had developed that load at 10 degrees in the winter, when shot In the summer I was getting pressure. I dropped down to 54g h1000 and now I am getting no pressure and still good velocity at 2950fps. Less recoil too. Still happy with it.

That’s very impressive performance. I’m shooting 58gr of H1000 grains under a 115 VLD for 3050 out of a 24” 25-06.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

That’s very impressive performance. I’m shooting 58gr of H1000 grains under a 115 VLD for 3050 out of a 24” 25-06.

I would've thought that 115 behind 58 grains would be going faster, still fast though!

 

[FLS]

I would've thought that 115 behind 58 grains would be going faster, still fast though!

I could probably go a grain higher, buts it’s a laser and everything I’ve shot with it has died quick. Really quick.

 

[cbuck516]

I hit all my cases with One Shot prior to resizing. I put them in a Lyman loading tray and hit them from both sides at roughly 45 degree angle to insure they're lubed on the inside and outside of the case neck. Using this method, I necked down around 225 once-fired .30-06 cases with one pass through my Redding FL .25-06 sizing die without any issues.

Going the AI route would require at least one more die, and this is another factor i'm weighing in the decision to AI or not. I know guys regularly just neck size after fire-forming, but several veteran reloaders I trust have always advised me to FL size every time.

Sounds like you are getting plenty of lube. I wouldn't expect to have any trouble using the factory expander balls, but I don't like how much that method pulls on the brass in the neck. Maybe with plenty of lube it doesn't stretch as much.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

That’s very impressive performance. I’m shooting 58gr of H1000 grains under a 115 VLD for 3050 out of a 24” 25-06.

Maybe give IMR 4831 or N560 a try with those 115. You should be able to get better velocity with significantly less powder. Here is load data for 115 NBT.

I don’t have a chrono and haven’t trued velocity at distance yet, but I just shot 10 rounds with 115 NBT at 52 grains of 4831 and magnum primers. No pressure signs whatsoever and all 10 rounds were inside a 2”x2” square at 100 yards. I loaded up 20 more rounds with this recipe, paying closer attention to detail, and I plan to hit the range soon with a better rest and rear bag to see how they perform. The factory Tikka barrel is 22”, so I don’t expect 1:1 with Nosler load data, but hopefully close.

 

[Nbowlin]

134gr ELD-M Leaving at 3280fps impacting at 605yds.

 

[Mountainrancher]

134gr ELD-M Leaving at 3280fps impacting at 605yds.

Cartridge and barrel length?

 

[amassi]

Maybe give IMR 4831 or N560 a try with those 115. You should be able to get better velocity with significantly less powder. Here is load data for 115 NBT.

I don’t have a chrono and haven’t trued velocity at distance yet, but I just shot 10 rounds with 115 NBT at 52 grains of 4831 and magnum primers. No pressure signs whatsoever and all 10 rounds were inside a 2”x2” square at 100 yards. I loaded up 20 more rounds with this recipe, paying closer attention to detail, and I plan to hit the range soon with a better rest and rear bag to see how they perform. The factory Tikka barrel is 22”, so I don’t expect 1:1 with Nosler load data, but hopefully close.

Don’t like the case fill on either of those loads.
Retumbo would be about perfect for powders on that data set


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[amassi]

134gr ELD-M Leaving at 3280fps impacting at 605yds.

Saum?


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[B23]

134gr ELD-M Leaving at 3280fps impacting at 605yds.

I'd really like to hear the specifics of what cartridge this is as well as barrel length and besides the obvious of the resulting dead speedgoat how did the 134 ELD-M perform and would you use it on other animals like deer or even elk? I'm having a 25 SAUM built with the plan of shooting this particular bullet is why I'm asking. Thanks

 

[Nbowlin]

The rifle is currently en-route to an elk hunt. That goat was a bang flop with a pass through on a quartering to down 2/3 the body.
Its an improved 280AI necked down. Pac-nor 24" 7.5T. Thing is a hammer 1000yd and 650yd targets

 

[rbaney]

I have shot three Whitetail buck two nice ones and one smaller buck. But all have been taken with a .257 bullet. First was with 257 Wby and 115 NBT. Last one was with a 257 Roberts and 117 grain Hornady. Middle one was A 25-06 and 115 grain partitions. I have pictured the first one and the last one

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Don’t like the case fill on either of those loads.
Retumbo would be about perfect for powders on that data set


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Can you help me understand what you mean? (I’m reloading newb)

Both of those powders have a lower case fill % than Retumbo. Less powder, no compression, maybe lower pressures. Please let me know what I’m missing.

 

[amassi]

Can you help me understand what you mean? (I’m reloading newb)

Both of those powders have a lower case fill % than Retumbo. Less powder, no compression, maybe lower pressures. Please let me know what I’m missing.

Can you help me understand what you mean? (I’m reloading newb)

Both of those powders have a lower case fill % than Retumbo. Less powder, no compression, maybe lower pressures. Please let me know what I’m missing.

Case fill is good it tends to make very repeatably accurate ammo. Also if you have too little powder for the space you’ll have issues with what’s called powder bridging, a very bad thing and a good way to lock a bolt and poop your pants.


Those powders pressure out before they can fill the case ie the low percentage so they’ll likely have higher pressures than retumbo.

You probably can’t get enough retumbo in a 06 based case to reach saami max pressure a compressed 60:0 grain load is only making 50.3k psi in a 25-06 & 120hr.

Retumbo is also incredibly stable, so you have a lower pressure round with more case fill that will be less prone to temp spikes and drops

If you want to save a ton of components and powders pick one that is 97-101% case capacity and let her rip.

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[FLS]

Maybe give IMR 4831 or N560 a try with those 115. You should be able to get better velocity with significantly less powder. Here is load data for 115 NBT.

I don’t have a chrono and haven’t trued velocity at distance yet, but I just shot 10 rounds with 115 NBT at 52 grains of 4831 and magnum primers. No pressure signs whatsoever and all 10 rounds were inside a 2”x2” square at 100 yards. I loaded up 20 more rounds with this recipe, paying closer attention to detail, and I plan to hit the range soon with a better rest and rear bag to see how they perform. The factory Tikka barrel is 22”, so I don’t expect 1:1 with Nosler load data, but hopefully close.

I used to shoot 115 NBTs over 4831 and RL 22. I got better speed and accuracy with RL22. I’ve killed a bunch of game with that combo out of of several different 25-06s. Thats probably my favorite .257 bullet. I’ve got a couple of pounds of RL 23 I’ve been wanting to try.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Case fill is good it tends to make very repeatably accurate ammo. Also if you have too little powder for the space you’ll have issues with what’s called powder bridging, a very bad thing and a good way to lock a bolt and poop your pants.


Those powders pressure out before they can fill the case ie the low percentage so they’ll likely have higher pressures than retumbo.

You probably can’t get enough retumbo in a 06 based case to reach saami max pressure a compressed 60:0 grain load is only making 50.3k psi in a 25-06 & 120hr.

Retumbo is also incredibly stable, so you have a lower pressure round with more case fill that will be less prone to temp spikes and drops

If you want to save a ton of components and powders pick one that is 97-101% case capacity and let her rip.

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This is invaluable information and thank you very much. I love this site.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I used to shoot 115 NBTs over 4831 and RL 22. I got better speed and accuracy with RL22. I’ve killed a bunch of game with that combo out of of several different 25-06s. Thats probably my favorite .257 bullet. I’ve got a couple of pounds of RL 23 I’ve been wanting to try.

That Speer 120 Gold Dot is supposed to be an excellent hunting bullet as well. Same bullet as used in the Federal Fusion load. I may try those some time as well.

 

[cbuck516]

Our first rifle deer season arrived here in Missouri this weekend and both my boys ended up shooting their first deer, a whitetail doe, using the 0.257" SBD2 110gr.

The rifle used was a Howa 1500 25-06AI with 26" 1:7" and Omega 300 suppressor, an 11# rifle fully loaded, so I don't want to hear any complaints about an adult that thinks a 10# rifle is heavy
Muzzle velocity on this load is 3421fps.

The first deer shot yesterday was a young doe and the shot was taken almost perfectly broadside at 75 yards. Impact velocity was approximately 3305fps with 2668ft.# of energy. Bullet impact perfectly mid body, but back near the last rib. Exit was slightly forward of that on the opposite side. Per usual, entrance hole what bullet diameter and exit was slightly larger than 1" with evidence that there was some amount of fragmentation with multiple small exit holes surrounding the shank exit hole. The bullet destroyed the liver with additional damage to the rumen and minor damage to one lung lobe. There were a few dark spots of blood at POI, but there was no additional blood to be found for the first 100 yards of the path the deer ran. Once blood trail started, the deer lasted another 20 yards. I would have preferred that the shot be further forward into the front shoulder, but even I have made this same shot before so I can't fault a 6-year old too much.

How doe was found with exit wound facing up.

Damage done to liver

Exit hole showing possible fragmentation.

The second deer shot with this bullet was a mature doe with much different shot placement. Doe was in the same shooting lane and virtually the same position but about 5 yards closer. Bullet entered in the front leg and exited just behind the crease in the opposite side. She ran a total of 15 yards and last maybe two seconds.
Bullet and bone fragmentation was significant with this shot and destruction was unlike anything I have seen with a solid copper bullet, not even my 300 PRC. Blood trail was very significant and had bright red blood sprayed all over the vegetation for the full 15 yards. My 8-year old easily blood trailed the deer without assistance. Again, entrance was roughly bullet diameter and exit was roughly 1", but internal damage was a much more than the exterior suggested. The front leg where the bullet entered was completely broken and I found copper fragments under the hide on opposite side.

Second deer showing entrance hole in front shoulder.

Thumb pointing at location of bullet entry. Blood under skin all the way to the back of the ribs.

After removing front quarter the bullets entrance into the chest cavity was found. Nearly a 3" opening just forward of the heart. Significant blood found through, but it appeared to not be bloodshot meat, just pooled and coagulated blood.

Bullet exit behind the crease. ~1" exit.

Chest cavity at bullet exit.

Copper fragments under hide on opposite side

In addition to being grateful for harvesting these two animals and sharing that experience with my kids for their first deer, I was pleased to be able to see two very different shot placements in the same day with the exact same bullet.
One shot was a little too far back for my liking and one was hard into the front shoulder.

The one that was too far back had very minimal impact with bone and blood trail was nearly non-existent. The shot into the shoulder had significant bone impact and significant trauma to the circulatory system, spraying blood out of the exit wound.

The biggest lesson reinforced today is, "put the bullet in the right spot". For me that is into the heart/lung area and not behind the crease. I have shot deer with lead core bullets too far back and have had the same results, dead deer but no blood trail. Same thing with lead core on elk. Shot in liver, ran 100 yards, but no blood trail.

This is the behavior I was hoping to see with this bullet as I have cautiously been approaching the idea of using it on elk this fall. I am very confident in that choice now for distances out to 400 yards. I know many won't consider that long range, but when I rarely shoot deer past 100, 400 is pretty far out there.