.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM

[cbuck516]

That's interesting. The two rifles I have loaded for with the badlands needed 60-70 thou jump to group well. This is my first year hunting with them, I'm looking forward to seeing first hand

I killed a handful of animals with the 110gr SBD II from a 1:7 25-06. MV was around 3200. They killed similar to a Barnes for me. One actually tumbled in a pig after hitting some bone and was quite devastating. Otherwise in thin-skinned game they killed, but slowly. I will say the BC was good for a mono and they were accurate and BC was accurate to around 1000 yards. Personally I like the terminal performance from hammers a little better and I just limit my effective range. If legal, nothing beats lead..

I haven't killed anything except paper targets with my 0.257" hammer bullets, but I have sure made a thick stack of dead paper targets. I did use a 0.308" hammer on elk last year and it honestly did not appear to behave significantly differently than the badlands on pronghorn a month prior, but that is two different animals, two different cartridges, and two different bullets so I'm not sure it's a great comparison.

I am going to focus on getting as many animals down with the SBD2 110gr as I can this year to test performance.
I do believe the whitetail my nephew shot with the badlands 95gr BD2 was tumbling, possibly before it reached the animal. The shot he took was 30 yards through some brush (I told him to wait for a clear shot, but his finger got anxious). With the angle of the shot as it was taken (buck was slightly quartered towards us), the bullet should have exited right in front of or in the stomach. However, the exit was actually further forward than the entrance. That being said, the tumbling bullet was incredibly lethal. While the deer didn't drop in its tracks, it lost a lot of blood rapidly and maybe went 80 yards.
That experience made me question if I should instead be using hammer bullets with all the kiddos. I'm hoping to get my own kids out this year, but my 12# 25-06AI might be a little too hefty for them. I'm looking to build a lightweight, suppressed 18" 25 CM that would serve as a good low recoil rifle for the whitetail woods.

 

[Ernie]

754 Yard Freak.

Michael DeLoach of Nine Run Gun (NRG) built the 25-284 using a single shot Kauger Arms Black Widow action and LH stock.
Impact velocity was 1835 ft./s. The new Hornady 134 grain ELD-M bullet did exit, which was really pleasing. I will be getting the European mount for this buck. Using a tape measure that Dan had in his truck, he measured 13.5 inches on one side and 14 inches on the other.

I was using the new Revic rangefinding binoculars, that had ballistic software. I was really pleased with how good it worked.

 

[sndmn11]

754 Yard Freak.

Michael DeLoach of Nine Run Gun (NRG) built the 25-284 using a single shot Kauger Arms Black Widow action and LH stock.
Impact velocity was 1835 ft./s. The new Hornady 134 grain ELD-M bullet did exit, which was really pleasing. I will be getting the European mount for this buck. .

Beauty! Pronghorn euro mounts are awesome.

I was just about to ask if there was a -284 cartridge anyone has played with.

I am curious what you are seeing at the muzzle?

I haven't read through this in a while, so if similar info is within, my apologies.

 

[Ernie]

This is a very mild/light load with H-4831sc.
Barrel is 15"
MV with the 134 is 2554 fps

 

[waldo9190]

The ELDs are hitting shelves. Was able to snag some for testing. Just in time for a fresh 25 creedmoor prefitView attachment 553578

Curious which contour you went with?

 

[willfrye027]

Curious which contour you went with?

That one is a Brux #4

 

[Rooggvc]

So looking at the 25 Creed 134 ELDM combo. I can't find much load data on it. Anyone using H4350 that could give me a place to start?

 

[amassi]

So looking at the 25 Creed 134 ELDM combo. I can't find much load data on it. Anyone using H4350 that could give me a place to start?

I’ve done a fair amount of wild catting.
You’re lucky Hornady has 2 sister cartridges as bookends
Somewhere between the 140 eld m and the 108 eld m would be the easy button
Hornady uses 41.7(6cm) and 41.5(6.5cm) as max with H4350. Bet you a dollar 40.5 is a good place to start
Go further out on a limb and say 41.5 totally feasible with large rifle (non magnum) primers.

 

[willfrye027]

So looking at the 25 Creed 134 ELDM combo. I can't find much load data on it. Anyone using H4350 that could give me a place to start?

39-42gr depending on your brass. Pretty similar to the other creedmoors

 

[Travis Bertrand]

I…..can’t…….wait…….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I'm finalizing my new .25-06 PBB barrel plan. After speaking to the guys about the heavy bullets and their length, they said to just send a dummy round and they will set the freebore accordingly.

I experimented with 134 ELDM seating depth vs OEM Tikka magazine/action length last night. I found that max COAL for proper feeding was around 3.30 +/-. Anything much longer than this and the front of the action catches the bullet point and you can't insert it.

I seated my dummy round at 3.290 for a little cushion, and had no issues after repeatedly loading the magazine. This should work and give me a little grace in case I get in a hurry with a loaded mag.

At 3.290, the boattail is about halfway past the cartridge shoulder.

Biggest decision now is whether to go with standard chambering or go the AI route to improve brass life. Based on my experience thus far, it looks like i'll be triming every couple firings in standard.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I'm finalizing my new .25-06 PBB barrel plan. After speaking to the guys about the heavy bullets and their length, they said to just send a dummy round and they will set the freebore accordingly.

I experimented with 134 ELDM seating depth vs OEM Tikka magazine/action length last night. I found that max COAL for proper feeding was around 3.30 +/-. Anything much longer than this and the front of the action catches the bullet point and you can't insert it.

I seated my dummy round at 3.290 for a little cushion, and had no issues after repeatedly loading the magazine. This should work and give me a little grace in case I get in a hurry with a loaded mag.

At 3.290, the boattail is about halfway past the cartridge shoulder.

Biggest decision now is whether to go with standard chambering or go the AI route to improve brass life. Based on my experience thus far, it looks like i'll be triming every couple firings in standard.

Go AI, nobody every complains about more speed!

 

[cbuck516]

I'm finalizing my new .25-06 PBB barrel plan. After speaking to the guys about the heavy bullets and their length, they said to just send a dummy round and they will set the freebore accordingly.

I experimented with 134 ELDM seating depth vs OEM Tikka magazine/action length last night. I found that max COAL for proper feeding was around 3.30 +/-. Anything much longer than this and the front of the action catches the bullet point and you can't insert it.

I seated my dummy round at 3.290 for a little cushion, and had no issues after repeatedly loading the magazine. This should work and give me a little grace in case I get in a hurry with a loaded mag.

At 3.290, the boattail is about halfway past the cartridge shoulder.

Biggest decision now is whether to go with standard chambering or go the AI route to improve brass life. Based on my experience thus far, it looks like i'll be triming every couple firings in standard.

Having personally dealt with cartridges that exceed magazine length, I would discourage you from building a 25-06 in an action with magazine restrictions at 3.30". My PBB 25-06AI using the Berger 135gr jams at 3.485" and I assume the Hornady 134gr would be similar.
You will constantly be compromising with your load choices and on a semi custom build that just doesn't make sense to me.
Why not pick another 25cal that won't give you any problems at 3.30" such as 25CM, or 25PRC?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Having personally dealt with cartridges that exceed magazine length, I would discourage you from building a 25-06 in an action with magazine restrictions at 3.30". My PBB 25-06AI using the Berger 135gr jams at 3.485" and I assume the Hornady 134gr would be similar.
You will constantly be compromising with your load choices and on a semi custom build that just doesn't make sense to me.
Why not pick another 25cal that won't give you any problems at 3.30" such as 25CM, or 25PRC?

Thank you for the advice, and I already own the rifle, dies, powder, primers, and a few hundred pieces of brass. Berger's load data for the .25-06 with133/135 heavies is based on 3.25 COAL, so I figured seating at 3.29 gets the bullet further out of the powder column while still staying within OEM mag length. The Berger load data numbers are already outstanding, and I'm not looking to make huge jumps on these overall.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Go AI, nobody every complains about more speed!

Not necessarily looking for more speed, but improved case life.

Has anybody that's gone the .25-06 AI route had any feeding issues with the improved shoulder?

 

[cbuck516]

Not necessarily looking for more speed, but improved case life.

Has anybody that's gone the .25-06 AI route had any feeding issues with the improved shoulder?

I have not had any issues with feeding, but I have had issues with weakness in the shoulder region of the 25-06AI case. This is once fired Lapua brass that was full length resized using a Redding S die (without the expander ball) then expander mandrel to set neck tension. The expander mandrel step is where this case deformation occurred and it has happened to me like 5 times now. I resolved this by lubricating the inside of the neck just prior to using the expander mandrel, but I have never had to do this on any of the other cartridges I load for. Maybe this is just an artifact that needs to be considered in the wildcat fireforming process?
I never had this happen in 25-06 using the same techniques, so if anything, the case life is worse in the 25-06AI from my perspective.

 

[cbuck516]

Thank you for the advice, and I already own the rifle, dies, powder, primers, and a few hundred pieces of brass. Berger's load data for the .25-06 with133/135 heavies is based on 3.25 COAL, so I figured seating at 3.29 gets the bullet further out of the powder column while still staying within OEM mag length. The Berger load data numbers are already outstanding, and I'm not looking to make huge jumps on these overall.

I'm not saying don't build the 25-06AI, I'm just saying the Tikka platform will limit your options down the road.

I have a 1944 Mauser M98 that was rebarreled in the 50's to 270Win with the internal magazine restrictions of 3.22". That is a pretty similar restriction to what you are talking about, but at least you are talking about shortening the freebore area to reduce jump. This is not a factory barrel and I am finding jam at around 3.4-3.5" with most bullets. There are some bullets that I can use in that rifle without seating past the neck/shoulder junction, but there are more options that force me to seat super deep. I will be re-barreling to 308Win in the future and will never again own a rifle that limits my options like this.

I just checked the Berger 135gr on my fired 25-06AI cases and at 3.300" it is seated past the neck/shoulder junction, but at 3.400" is looks like it stops just short of the junction with a little margin for seating adjustment.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I'm not saying don't build the 25-06AI, I'm just saying the Tikka platform will limit your options down the road.

I have a 1944 Mauser M98 that was rebarreled in the 50's to 270Win with the internal magazine restrictions of 3.22". That is a pretty similar restriction to what you are talking about, but at least you are talking about shortening the freebore area to reduce jump. This is not a factory barrel and I am finding jam at around 3.4-3.5" with most bullets. There are some bullets that I can use in that rifle without seating past the neck/shoulder junction, but there are more options that force me to seat super deep. I will be re-barreling to 308Win in the future and will never again own a rifle that limits my options like this.

I just checked the Berger 135gr on my fired 25-06AI cases and at 3.300" it is seated past the neck/shoulder junction, but at 3.400" is looks like it stops just short of the junction with a little margin for seating adjustment.

I appreciate the insights, and are you running a 700 or Savage clone to eliminate the restriction? I've heard both of these support extended LA COAL where the Tikka does not.

The action I have already has damage to the integral rail that requires an aftermarket ail for scope mounting. As a result, I'm lilkely never going to try and sell it. To eliminate the COAL restriction, I could probably get in there and mill the action down a hair to provide additional clearance and then get the Red Snake Tactical bottom metal and magazines to maximize cartridge length. However, I'm not at that point just yet.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I have not had any issues with feeding, but I have had issues with weakness in the shoulder region of the 25-06AI case. This is once fired Lapua brass that was full length resized using a Redding S die (without the expander ball) then expander mandrel to set neck tension. The expander mandrel step is where this case deformation occurred and it has happened to me like 5 times now. I resolved this by lubricating the inside of the neck just prior to using the expander mandrel, but I have never had to do this on any of the other cartridges I load for. Maybe this is just an artifact that needs to be considered in the wildcat fireforming process?
I never had this happen in 25-06 using the same techniques, so if anything, the case life is worse in the 25-06AI from my perspective.
View attachment 607491

I hit all my cases with One Shot prior to resizing. I put them in a Lyman loading tray and hit them from both sides at roughly 45 degree angle to insure they're lubed on the inside and outside of the case neck. Using this method, I necked down around 225 once-fired .30-06 cases with one pass through my Redding FL .25-06 sizing die without any issues.

Going the AI route would require at least one more die, and this is another factor i'm weighing in the decision to AI or not. I know guys regularly just neck size after fire-forming, but several veteran reloaders I trust have always advised me to FL size every time.

 

[6mm Remington]

25-06 using 120 gr. Partition at 3000 fps in a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle. Missouri Breaks buck!