.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ThatDUDE]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

 

[RockAndSage]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

Hodgdon 4895, and Vihta N530 are right next to Tac and XBR 8208 on the burn charts.

 

[JBradley500]

I use varget but it's not super fast even compressed. Shoots good though.

 

[Billogna]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

Hodgdon 4895, and Vihta N530 are right next to Tac and XBR 8208 on the burn charts.

I've heard of people having good results with AR Comp and LevrRevolution as well. I personally don't have any experience with either.

 

[SamsonMan22]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

H4895, Benchmark, N135, TAC, LVR, AR-Comp

 

[TX_Diver]

I'm using Staball Match and N140 but I only just loaded them up within the last 2 weeks so I haven't done too much shoot with either of those and 77TMKs yet. I shot a decent amount of 75 ELD-Ms with N140 and had decent results. I never formally tested the temp stability though.

 

[canyonhunter47]

After slumming it out with 73 ELDMs for the last couple years finally found some 77 TMKs.

I’ve been using Varget with the 73’s. Am I giving up much performance sticking with that powder or should I hunt for something else?

 

[mddat]

View attachment 726041
After slumming it out with 73 ELDMs for the last couple years finally found some 77 TMKs.

I’ve been using Varget with the 73’s. Am I giving up much performance sticking with that powder or should I hunt for something else?

I’m using 24.2gr of varget with the 77’s at 2780 velocity out of my 22” tikka t3x lite, not the fastest but it shoots great

 

[LimeSpoon]

I think that better than just identifying the 77TMK as being top draw the greatest benefit of this thread is that it has confirmed and validated with data the usefulness of a whole range of heavy and not so heavy projectiles that are almost as good as each other on deer. And some wishful thinking and isolated examples on other large game species which I think based on my large deer experience is pushing the envelope a bit.

There seems to be a sufficiently large pile of elk posted in this thread that I think we're beyond the level of isolated examples in respect to that particular breed of ungulate.

IMO the value of the bear and moose reports is not so much in what they say about the suitability of 77 gr TMK for hunting bears and moose - I would prefer a larger bullet myself, though I wouldn't begrudge someone for choosing otherwise - but rather as a 'sanity check' for species such as elk and black bear. A bullet that performs so well on an animal the size of a moose or brown/grizzly, even given our small sample size, is very likely to be reliable on anything substantially lighter. In my mind, data points from hunts involving the target animal itself (that being elk I'm talking about here) and larger, tougher game (brown bears, moose) are more useful for evaluating the suitability of a bullet for the target animal than extrapolations from animals that are smaller.

And as far as simple self defense from the aforementioned larger animals goes, I think it probably provides pretty good validation there too.

I will add that the 75 Hornady BTHP seems to stay together well and slightly mushroom or tumble upon impact. Every deer I have shot with it has had a 1 to 2 inch exit hole, instant blood trail, and has died within 30 meters. Everything I have shot with them I have gotten complete pass through.

77 SMK seem to frag out more. This is consistent with their historical performance in ballistic gel, animals, and humans. You typically get 4 inches of straight penetration, then a violent yaw, and the bullet breaks apart at the cannelure and frags out. Massive damage. Almost too much but very effective.

From what I remember of standard 75 gr Hornady BTHP testing, it typically performs a bit better than 77 gr SMK. A slightly shorter neck, maybe a little more frag, bit more consistent.

I wonder if the 75 gr Hornadys are not producing similarly large holes inside the body cavity, and you're observing smaller exits because the bullet frags earlier and thus the wound cavity also narrows down sooner?

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

If you're willing to use factory ammo and skip the loading process, I believe Black Hills 77 gr TMK is available from a number of online retailers right now. I can't speak as to the exact properties of their proprietary powder blend but it seems to be some very efficient stuff; the primers from the fired brass have been some of the roundest I've ever seen.

On the downside, Black Hills no longer seems to be putting case and mouth primer sealant on their 77 gr TMK lots anymore. Bit of a disappointment but it is what it is.

 

[IDguy]

What kind of yardages and impact velocity have you used these at? I am thinking of using them for my son’s mule deer hunt.

Everything was close, within 100m. I hope to get out further this year. I would not hesitate to get them out to distance though. Long, match bullets are inherently unstable upon impact at almost any velocity, so even if the bullet doesn't expand, it will want to tumble, which with such a long bullet, is very effective.

 

[Pharmseller]

and has died within 30 meters.

You’re in Idaho.

Idaho.

What’s with the meters?




P

 

[IDguy]

First, meters is what I learned to shoot with.

Now on to the powder question...

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

I was the first guy to publicly do temp stability testing with Staball Match. The BLUF is that it is fantastic, and velocity with heavies beats even 8208 in my rifle by a noticable margin. Keep in mind, my Staball Match load is a 223 pressure load per Hodgdon, while the 8208 load I used to use was definitely in 5.56 pressures.

Here is a link to the original post with the temp test results and pics in it. I hope it is ok to link to other forums here. I just dont feel like copying and reposting all the data here. This test was done with the 75 gr Hornady bullet.

Staball Match

Thanks MK. Makes sense now. Will do definitely. 👍 I just posted this in the other Staball Match thread. Take a look. Match is a terrible powder choice for 6.5C @TryLikeHell - In addition to buying a paper back manual, you can download Gordon's Reloading tool for free. Be warned though, garbage...

www.snipershide.com

 

[IDguy]

Apparently if you post a link in a post a mod has to approve it, so post with link to my Staball Match testing arriving in...idk, some time?

Anyway, since that might take a while, here is the most pertinent post from that linked thread, but the thread itself is worth a read for the good info in it.

These results were achieved with Staball Match and Hornady 75gr BTHP out of a WOA 18" SPR barrel. I believe the rifle was running a standard spring with H2 buffer. No AGB was used. 5 round averages over a magnetospeed chrono. Rounds were soaked at that temp for a duration of time, so even thermal distribution in the round was achieved. Temperature was measured with a Fluke laser thermometer.

Frozen rounds
5 deg F
2794 fps

Room temp rounds
60 deg F
2786 fps

Heated rounds
150 deg F
2860 fps


Looks like this powder is a winner, gents.

Fast, temp stable to a high degree, meters well, USA made, so availability should be good, and reasonably priced considering the current market.

Hodgdon, get ready to make a bunch of this stuff because you will sell all of it.

 

[Chief Whack A Buck]

I don't have any specific load data, but I wanted to take my childhood break over Rossi 223 out to the woods as a way to remember the good old days.

Long story short, stalked up on this boar hog, got charged, and shot him just in front of his shield at 10ish yards. He stumbled past me and went down. No pass through, was using Hornady Black 75gn BTHP.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[Jimbee]

Anyone use Starline? I got 1k coming. No lapua and adi, while consistent, dosnt have the tightest primer pockets.

Curious on thoughts particularly how it relates to lapua.

Any thoughts on the Starline brass? I'm considering Starline for other calibers if it's decent.

 

[Robobiss]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

I’m running 22.5 grains of H4895 at AR mag length about 2600 out of an AR with a 16” barrel. I run 24.5 in a 22 nosler, haven’t chronod but I imagine it is smoking along pretty good.

Wouldn’t mind if it were a little faster in the 223 but really don’t need it to, where I’ll be using it is sub 100 yard shots all day long. It shoots good out of my poverty parts bin upper I put together a couple years ago.

Edit: I’m surprised I haven’t seen much love for the 22nosler here considering it’s just a barrel change away for an AR. I would think it is a good way to get Tikka 223 velocities out of an AR due to the extra case capacity where you are limited to 2.26” for AR mags.

 

[Lawnboi]

Any thoughts on the Starline brass? I'm considering Starline for other calibers if it's decent.

No use yet. Been shooting my PRS rifle too much lately.

 

[HighUintas]

Any thoughts on the Starline brass? I'm considering Starline for other calibers if it's decent.

I haven't used the 223. But I have used the 30-06 and currently use the 6.5cm. I think it's quality brass.

 

[SamsonMan22]

I gave up on getting more lapua brass and have been using both starline 5.56 and 223 both are working just fine as far as precision goes. I bought a large amount so I haven’t put that many reloads on them yet to speak of longevity compared to lapua.

 

[RockAndSage]

I’m running 22.5 grains of H4895 at AR mag length about 2600 out of an AR with a 16” barrel. I run 24.5 in a 22 nosler, haven’t chronod but I imagine it is smoking along pretty good.

Wouldn’t mind if it were a little faster in the 223 but really don’t need it to, where I’ll be using it is sub 100 yard shots all day long. It shoots good out of my poverty parts bin upper I put together a couple years ago.

Edit: I’m surprised I haven’t seen much love for the 22nosler here considering it’s just a barrel change away for an AR. I would think it is a good way to get Tikka 223 velocities out of an AR due to the extra case capacity where you are limited to 2.26” for AR mags.

I seriously considered .22 Nosler, and really like the cartridge. It kinda went DOA though, somewhere between competition from .224 Valk, lack of sustained marketing push and partner/manufacturer programs from Nosler, some perceived limits on ability to use high BC bullets, and some guys claiming they couldn't really get it accurate. Now add in .22ARC and Hornady's machine behind it, and the Nosler's on the fast track to obscurity. Sadly. Because it's a killer cartridge.