.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ElPollo]

Anyone know what the BC is on the 75 gr AAC Sabre Black Tip bullets?

 

[waspocrew]

Anyone know what the BC is on the 75 gr AAC Sabre Black Tip bullets?

.334 per Midsouth

 

[ElPollo]

.334 per Midsouth

View attachment 724803

Thanks, I just order 400 loaded rounds from PSA to try them out.

 

[waspocrew]

Thanks, I just order 400 loaded rounds from PSA to try them out.

I haven’t shot the 75 gr ammo yet, but my Tikka CTR shot the 62 gr ammo very well. I’m sure the 75 will do great.

 

[Tahr]

Howdy fellas - long time reader first time poster.

Canada is pretty cucked for the TMK it would seem, and the closest I’ve found locally is the 73g fusion - which is an open tipped Berger match bullet

They shoot very well out of my RAR, just wondering if anyone has any further feedback on this round
View attachment 724439

Amongst others, I use a line of custom made projectiles that use Berger jackets and a proprietary core. The 74 and 80 grain are quite exceptional on deer. Right up there in the top cluster of heavy for caliber .223 projectiles.
I think that better than just identifying the 77TMK as being top draw the greatest benefit of this thread is that it has confirmed and validated with data the usefulness of a whole range of heavy and not so heavy projectiles that are almost as good as each other on deer. And some wishful thinking and isolated examples on other large game species which I think based on my large deer experience is pushing the envelope a bit.

 

[IDguy]

I will add that the 75 Hornady BTHP seems to stay together well and slightly mushroom or tumble upon impact. Every deer I have shot with it has had a 1 to 2 inch exit hole, instant blood trail, and has died within 30 meters. Everything I have shot with them I have gotten complete pass through.

77 SMK seem to frag out more. This is consistent with their historical performance in ballistic gel, animals, and humans. You typically get 4 inches of straight penetration, then a violent yaw, and the bullet breaks apart at the cannelure and frags out. Massive damage. Almost too much but very effective.

The 64 gr Nosler TBBC FBI duty load penetrates very, very well, and tracks absolutely true even when shooting through bone.

No, I don't work for the FBI. You couldn't pay me enough.

 

[Thegman]

I will add that the 75 Hornady BTHP seems to stay together well and slightly mushroom or tumble upon impact. Every deer I have shot with it has had a 1 to 2 inch exit hole, instant blood trail, and has died within 30 meters. Everything I have shot with them I have gotten complete pass through.

77 SMK seem to frag out more. This is consistent with their historical performance in ballistic gel, animals, and humans. You typically get 4 inches of straight penetration, then a violent yaw, and the bullet breaks apart at the cannelure and frags out. Massive damage. Almost too much but very effective.

The 64 gr Nosler TBBC FBI duty load penetrates very, very well, and tracks absolutely true even when shooting through bone.

No, I don't work for the FBI. You couldn't pay me enough.

I've heard some good things about the Hornady 75 BTHP as well on game. Would be interesting to see and hear about more results, good and/or not so good.

 

[ThatDUDE]

I will add that the 75 Hornady BTHP seems to stay together well and slightly mushroom or tumble upon impact. Every deer I have shot with it has had a 1 to 2 inch exit hole, instant blood trail, and has died within 30 meters. Everything I have shot with them I have gotten complete pass through.

What kind of yardages and impact velocity have you used these at? I am thinking of using them for my son’s mule deer hunt.

 

[ThatDUDE]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

 

[RockAndSage]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

Hodgdon 4895, and Vihta N530 are right next to Tac and XBR 8208 on the burn charts.

 

[JBradley500]

I use varget but it's not super fast even compressed. Shoots good though.

 

[Billogna]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

Hodgdon 4895, and Vihta N530 are right next to Tac and XBR 8208 on the burn charts.

I've heard of people having good results with AR Comp and LevrRevolution as well. I personally don't have any experience with either.

 

[SamsonMan22]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

H4895, Benchmark, N135, TAC, LVR, AR-Comp

 

[TX_Diver]

I'm using Staball Match and N140 but I only just loaded them up within the last 2 weeks so I haven't done too much shoot with either of those and 77TMKs yet. I shot a decent amount of 75 ELD-Ms with N140 and had decent results. I never formally tested the temp stability though.

 

[canyonhunter47]

After slumming it out with 73 ELDMs for the last couple years finally found some 77 TMKs.

I’ve been using Varget with the 73’s. Am I giving up much performance sticking with that powder or should I hunt for something else?

 

[mddat]

View attachment 726041
After slumming it out with 73 ELDMs for the last couple years finally found some 77 TMKs.

I’ve been using Varget with the 73’s. Am I giving up much performance sticking with that powder or should I hunt for something else?

I’m using 24.2gr of varget with the 77’s at 2780 velocity out of my 22” tikka t3x lite, not the fastest but it shoots great

 

[LimeSpoon]

I think that better than just identifying the 77TMK as being top draw the greatest benefit of this thread is that it has confirmed and validated with data the usefulness of a whole range of heavy and not so heavy projectiles that are almost as good as each other on deer. And some wishful thinking and isolated examples on other large game species which I think based on my large deer experience is pushing the envelope a bit.

There seems to be a sufficiently large pile of elk posted in this thread that I think we're beyond the level of isolated examples in respect to that particular breed of ungulate.

IMO the value of the bear and moose reports is not so much in what they say about the suitability of 77 gr TMK for hunting bears and moose - I would prefer a larger bullet myself, though I wouldn't begrudge someone for choosing otherwise - but rather as a 'sanity check' for species such as elk and black bear. A bullet that performs so well on an animal the size of a moose or brown/grizzly, even given our small sample size, is very likely to be reliable on anything substantially lighter. In my mind, data points from hunts involving the target animal itself (that being elk I'm talking about here) and larger, tougher game (brown bears, moose) are more useful for evaluating the suitability of a bullet for the target animal than extrapolations from animals that are smaller.

And as far as simple self defense from the aforementioned larger animals goes, I think it probably provides pretty good validation there too.

I will add that the 75 Hornady BTHP seems to stay together well and slightly mushroom or tumble upon impact. Every deer I have shot with it has had a 1 to 2 inch exit hole, instant blood trail, and has died within 30 meters. Everything I have shot with them I have gotten complete pass through.

77 SMK seem to frag out more. This is consistent with their historical performance in ballistic gel, animals, and humans. You typically get 4 inches of straight penetration, then a violent yaw, and the bullet breaks apart at the cannelure and frags out. Massive damage. Almost too much but very effective.

From what I remember of standard 75 gr Hornady BTHP testing, it typically performs a bit better than 77 gr SMK. A slightly shorter neck, maybe a little more frag, bit more consistent.

I wonder if the 75 gr Hornadys are not producing similarly large holes inside the body cavity, and you're observing smaller exits because the bullet frags earlier and thus the wound cavity also narrows down sooner?

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

If you're willing to use factory ammo and skip the loading process, I believe Black Hills 77 gr TMK is available from a number of online retailers right now. I can't speak as to the exact properties of their proprietary powder blend but it seems to be some very efficient stuff; the primers from the fired brass have been some of the roundest I've ever seen.

On the downside, Black Hills no longer seems to be putting case and mouth primer sealant on their 77 gr TMK lots anymore. Bit of a disappointment but it is what it is.

 

[IDguy]

What kind of yardages and impact velocity have you used these at? I am thinking of using them for my son’s mule deer hunt.

Everything was close, within 100m. I hope to get out further this year. I would not hesitate to get them out to distance though. Long, match bullets are inherently unstable upon impact at almost any velocity, so even if the bullet doesn't expand, it will want to tumble, which with such a long bullet, is very effective.

 

[Pharmseller]

and has died within 30 meters.

You’re in Idaho.

Idaho.

What’s with the meters?




P

 

[IDguy]

First, meters is what I learned to shoot with.

Now on to the powder question...

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

I was the first guy to publicly do temp stability testing with Staball Match. The BLUF is that it is fantastic, and velocity with heavies beats even 8208 in my rifle by a noticable margin. Keep in mind, my Staball Match load is a 223 pressure load per Hodgdon, while the 8208 load I used to use was definitely in 5.56 pressures.

Here is a link to the original post with the temp test results and pics in it. I hope it is ok to link to other forums here. I just dont feel like copying and reposting all the data here. This test was done with the 75 gr Hornady bullet.

Staball Match

Thanks MK. Makes sense now. Will do definitely. 👍 I just posted this in the other Staball Match thread. Take a look. Match is a terrible powder choice for 6.5C @TryLikeHell - In addition to buying a paper back manual, you can download Gordon's Reloading tool for free. Be warned though, garbage...

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